, I did a visual to make it easier to understand
SasyScarborough
Creators & Customers https://jira.secondlife.com/... Please watch and add if you can think of more reasons this is needed 
, I did a visual to make it easier to understand
, I did a visual to make it easier to understand
Allegory
it would sort of? make more sense to attach this to rigging. but even then, the way the uploader works for more than one object at a time, i don't see how they would implement it as anything other than an even bigger mess.
Allegory
especially since rigged items attached to HUD are only visible to the person who is attaching them, so someone who doesn't know what they are doing will be releasing things that are invisible to everyone not wearing it and no one will know until they are told.
Allegory
and they would have to remake the whole attachment system to have items not attach somewhere with Wear, HUDs also still work with Wear, don't they?
Allegory
i wish they would just go to Add by default instead of Wear, attachment points mean less for rigged then- you could just use it for transparency sorting (again, people who don't know how to won't, but at least the default point wouldn't matter so much)
Allegory
(i totally agree that the current attachment system knocking things off at random is a mess, and would like to see them fix it- i just wonder if this isn't expecting them to do too much work on their side to actually make it better...instead of worse!)
Anke
I'd rather there be a toggle for worn vs rezzed, and if worn it could add another tab by the Rigging tab for this stuff. It's already somewhat unwieldy.
Allegory
Anke
: worn vs. rezzed would, i think, require them totally redoing the whole attachment system. the way it's always been, everything can just be either. and i intentionally wear non wearables all the time (mostly to get at contents without creating more trash)
Anke
Yeah, I think it's more that to specify something should only be worn, which is something reasonable when it comes to rigged anything. I do think "add by default" would fix quite a lot with much less fuss.
Gogo ♔
everyone here is so smart ^^^
Gogo ♔
dont know what you're saying but i agree
🌈Chandni🏳️🌈
I personally love to attach things that are not made as a wearable item at times. Like shrinking a tree and put it on my head. Or use a basket that was made as decor and use it with my own hold pose. And sometimes I need to rezz rigged things to for example edit to
🌈Chandni🏳️🌈
tint it, when it refuses to work while I wear it. So i would not make the "not wear" thing as a 'makes it impossible to wear'. But I do like the whole not auto attach to the hand if we forget to change the attachment point.
🌈Chandni🏳️🌈
Just not a fan of limiting if anything can be worn or rezzed
🌈Chandni🏳️🌈
maybe i misunderstand the not rezzing thing.. because as creators we have to rez them too to make them lol..
Dakota 🐦⬛🪵
Maybe can they attach it at the center bone (or like the most attached weighted bone?). I really get tired of hair designers forgetting or not caring that everything defaults to right hand. I am constantly "attach to" all my rigged clothes because not everyone remembers to attach to a relevant attachment point
Dakota 🐦⬛🪵
On my rigged stuff I am hyper villegent to put on a relevant point because there's nothing more embarrassing or frustrating to losing your pants when you attach a hair.
Allegory
choice of attachment points are entirely irrelevant to rigged items, aside from the transparency sorting (and the having to guess what IS a relevant point not already taken gets...messy). the choice to continue knocking items off by default as they were when it was one attachment per point is the real central issue, that just became a dumber choice when
Allegory
rigged happened.
Allegory
one of the first things i do when setting up a new viewer is change the default from Wear to Add, because why is knocking things off something you want to EVER do now that you can have as many things on one point as the max you can wear????
Allegory
SasyScarborough
: a problem with someone picking "HUD" on upload of rigged mesh though...is that you actually WILL be naked and not realize it. generally though, doing away with the attachment points knocking other attachment points off gets around the real problem. also that's asking for not just the upload options, but a complete overhaul of the attachment
Allegory
system- they'd also have to disable the Wear option entirely for things you don't want worn by default.
Allegory
at which point...why even HAVE Wear anymore? with the limitations on per attachment point lifted, why should things knock things off? they only did originally because of the technical limitations of one object per point.
SasyScarborough
Allegory
: its not the option for rigged mesh, the jira is one or the other, if someone made rigged mesh they know they are making it to be worn, not to have it rezzed or as a hud
SasyScarborough
its check either WORN or WORLD depending on what the creation is, if its a table you click World, if its shoes you pick Worn. The two options were so that you have an alternative to the attachments points, because not all things are attachments for the avatar. The part in brackets under world, was that maybe something to consider, is that it could
SasyScarborough
have the option to be not wearable to avoid a mishap with wearing a folder of trees. It was not in stone, it was in brackets because it was a maybe this could also happen. Many HUDs are just prims, if they are uploaded mesh they are not rigged, but they really do rely on where placed in world during building them, what way they are facing etc.
SasyScarborough
Wear should not be a no longer option, because we wear clothing, it is more intuitive to the new user when looking at the options on how to get dressed, and if rigged items were attached to proper attachment point locations then mishaps would be far and fewer between, its not entirely going to eliminate mistakes, because a bustier or bra and a jacket could
SasyScarborough
both be attached to chest, but that would be more intuitive also to consider you may need to add it.
SasyScarborough
The idea is that if you click an attachment point you cant click the world box and vice versa, you cannot pick both etc, it is one or the other, and again if someone is uploading a wearable I would really hope they understand that. If you really truly think that it is wrong, comment on the jira, no one thinks that 38 items all attached to hand is a good idea
SasyScarborough
It made sense that giving people the option on upload erases the chance that they forget to assign the attachment point when in world and doing all the other things involved with preparing an item for release.
Allegory
more logical attachment points more easily would be great- i'm just not sure how to practically make it work without them doing a LOT more than just this to make it work. i batch upload, even rigged items, a bunch at once (it's cheaper as it's 10L/session regardless of how many items, but also it saves time instead of dealing with as many files and upload
Allegory
sessions)- and things like attachment points (and position/rotation/etc) only currently apply to the root object, i.e. this would only get around the issue for one random object i'm uploading, the rest would have the same to hand issue. there's also not really as much distinction between worn/rezzed...like there really isn't any distinction, it's just that
Allegory
right hand/0 position/0 rotation is the default for everything if it doesn't have another point/position/rotation stored to use. for unrigged, it all made/makes a difference, where you attach things, they will move with that single bone, but for unrigged it's entirely arbitrary for function (and when you get into body parts, THEY aren't even all set to the
Allegory
same default points, i've got bodies set to Center and bodies set to left pec [which is a REALLY weird ass attachment point, it doesn't move at all how you think it should], and something was set to left hip because it's also a weird less used point- so trying to figure out where you should even be setting it for each piece!)
Allegory
and, well, honestly...the more you ask them to fiddle with the system, the, uh, more that they are likely to break horribly!
Allegory
they never sorted out the torso attachment points to actually make SENSE...they never actually made the left sides of Universal Layers particularly usable....i don't want things to end up even more broken!
Allegory
and, welp, no comment on how much the cloud move has broken. only some of which has been fixed how many years later now?
Allegory
and projector light scripting...they did halfway and then due to ?????? reasons they didn’t do the rest so it’s basically useless. they broke group invites for months, friends list for who knows how long still...eventually they fix key stuff, but it can be a long infuriating wait when there’s a structural change
Allegory
but...if you removed the HUD/world option (rigged + HUD is weird/unexpected so only do very intentionally), and move that entirely to the rigged menu (unrigged needs to be moved almost always anyway), it might work as a reminder for rigged, without having to address the fundamental sameness of a house and a hat
Allegory
assuming they could access that flag in the upload session, without monkeying with other things too much. i’m not still bitter about the offline group/friend thing or anything...
SasyScarborough
the image was just an idea that you could fit all those things and not take up much room than is wasted already, all good points, i was not sure whether people brought in bulk mesh for rigged items, maybe you could add this to the jira comments, its about them seeing what people think, me making it was just hoping they would notice something does need doing
✴Sparkling✴
Add should be the default IOM
✴Sparkling✴
There is so much broken that is a higher priority. I think changing it to add as default instead of wear, would solve a lot of grief and annoyance, without a ton of work.
Allegory
I did not even know this was possible going to set it in my viewer now.
✴Sparkling✴
Allegory
: where do I change this? I am looking in prefernces and can not find it
Allegory
in firestorm it's in the inventory window, the gear at the bottom and through that menu...somewhere. it's actually a pain in the ass to find, every time! i don't know if there's an easy way to change it in official, i only ever use that to test out new features briefly (i can't stand the anchored window thing)
✴Sparkling✴
ahh ok I see it it is Add Object or Add clothes when you double click
✴Sparkling✴
Unfortunately you still get wear as an option if you right click which is confusing. Do we really need wear?
Allegory
it's still there, but i add things on click more often. and both options are in the menu, at least. i personally don't think we DO still need the replace option, i'd rename Add to Wear and ditch old Wear. some people do like the replace function, but i can't imagine it's really THAT key
Allegory
(obviously still the option to replace entire folders, i only mean on an item by item basis)
✴Sparkling✴
Yeah I think thats the way to go. I see no real purpose for wear. Other then to infuriate me when I forget, and end up naked at an event.