read in columns/rows, it's shiny settings all the way across a row, the lines vertical all have the same base texture
Allegory
i'm done doing my goshuin (that project is expanding to year round, btw), so back to the pbr mines. midday, outside, skybox. 
read in columns/rows, it's shiny settings all the way across a row, the lines vertical all have the same base texture
read in columns/rows, it's shiny settings all the way across a row, the lines vertical all have the same base texture
Allegory
the top 8 are inside a reflection probe: the bottom 8 are the mirror arrangement outside of a reflection probe. Baked Texture is how we've been texturing the straight up texture, Color Texture is what they want us to use for PBR- and works better than i expected at least in midday (which is pretty much optimal conditions)
Allegory
reflection probes matter some but not as much, even with using the gloss/enviro (pre pbr) texturing. no reflection probe and it's blowing out blue even when it has no metal or rough - this is more obvious on an oblique view. 
Allegory
the two bottom ones on the far left are PBR textures, without any sort of shiny applied, no reflection probe- they are decidedly blue tinted when you compare them to the no shiny non PBR behind them. with reflection probe, they are maybe a little? i honestly can't decide, but significantly more like the non PBR no shiny.
Allegory
(on both PBR and non, the entire object uses glossy/roughness- the gold belly stripes use metal/environment, as well)
Allegory
we already knew things look kind of like ass without reflection probes, and while this is better than expected...i'm still baking textures. i've just got to figure out a little different way to bake them (i want to cut highlights down a bit)
Dakota Revolver
none of the PBR (with and without reflection probes) don't look "real", they are either too shiny or they are too flat and there doesn't feel like there any kind of between.
Dakota Revolver
all the Baked Texture gloss/enviro feel more realistic to whatever the real life equivant might actually look ike. with the no shiny/reflection probe feelin the most real
Dakota Revolver
this is also with 0 knowledge of what the actual real life objects look like
Allegory
no shiny is 100% baked texture and nothing else- it won't look "right" in use, it doesn't react to the environment/camera angle/anything. PBR is kind of interesting in use, but it relies on the environment component of shiny even when it's toned down. which is more complex than it was pre pbr, but it's still a bit weird.
Allegory
(while they aren't set to full bright, top and bottom No Shiny! rows are effectively set to full bright with the light direction)
Allegory
aside from the weird oblique blue in there. and full bright not necessarily working the way full bright used to. and....PBR doesn't do full bright as an option as far as i can tell
Maxwell Graf
While the depth and results of your experiments are to be commended and are appreciated, the more I dig into my own experiments with it, the more I am beginning to feel like this is becoming an awful lot of fucking work to make a (object x) for my store. How many people will even notice the effort beyond, "hey cool (object x)?"
Maxwell Graf
Is it important that we spend 20 more hours a week doing this? Is there a return on that investment? You don't get the 20 hours back. These questions are in my mind. Would we do the same without spending the 20 hours?
Maxwell Graf
To do this as an individual requires more learning and more time and more money to get the software and produce the more complicated stuff. Always. On the other end of the spectrum is the A.I. beast which is prowling at the gates, doing it faster and with less effort every moment. This is not getting easier.
Maxwell Graf
We spend so much time trying to make things right, or worse, perfect. Yet I find myself looking at these images and wondering if 90% of people will even notice that PBR is applied, or if it would matter if it was not. Does it diminish the quality of the model or texture if it does not have PBR?
Maxwell Graf
At first glance and even 2nd, most of those figures look identical to me, for all intensive porpoises it would not make a difference if it was PBR or not. That says nothing about their quality.
Maxwell Graf
I worry about what it is adding to our workflow, despite being introduced as a way to decrease it and do some things more efficiently.
Maxwell Graf
Don't hear me wrong; PBR does amazing things overall and is awesome to work with once you learn it, in general. Like with mesh and materials before it, however, in SL - using them, making them work in SL - is always the difficult part because it never works the way it does everywhere else. There is always some caveat or twist on how we need to use it.
Maxwell Graf
Case in point: Sculpties.
Maxwell Graf
I see some of my friends driving themselves insane trying to get PBR to do what they want it to do on their creations, spending large amounts of time just wondering "wtf it is doing now? Why? I just want non-shiny pants!"
Maxwell Graf
Throw a few scheduled events in the mix and it can become a real headache.
Maxwell Graf
Just the time it took you to do THIS, for example, and have really made as many answers as new questions, is a lot of work.
Maxwell Graf
I almost wish they had just said "oh hey we added PBR" on a Tuesday blog post and not mentioned it again. The huge production and post-release drama that is going on makes this a lot more complicated than it should be (and is, everywhere else) because it's SL. That is always how it is.
Maxwell Graf
Every creator on the grid is trying to figure out wtf and its not even really working correctly yet.
Maxwell Graf
It is a huge disruption in the workflow of a lot of people, as it is, for what amounts to a very limited number of people who will properly see/understand the very limited results.
Maxwell Graf
I am waiting to see how it is implemented on the terrain and on avatars, the two things which you would want to apply PBR on the most. Having smart materials on my gold earrings is not making much difference for the trouble and expense.
Mmw Strangelove
This chart is very interesting. Also, I like your daruma. I think all daruma should be clickable so they have one eye (goal set) or two (goal met). Most are static and that's a pity because they're a cool way to make an oath.
Gogo ♔
you're amazing and a wealth of knowledge
Allegory
! You should be PBR Linden.
Gogo ♔
Can you tweet your image so i can retweet it lol
Gogo ♔
so PBR with no reflection probe is making everything (top row) a weird glow like the linden water ?
Allegory
Maxwell Graf
: it is always adding to our workflow and eating into our time, for no real return.
Allegory
thaumata: these are ceramic chopstick rests, and so not settable buuuuuuuut go to katakana shrine or japonica for some (free) dragon daruma dolls that are! because yes i'm sort of obsessed with daruma. i even made daruma sake with settable goal eyes that you get to paint in as you drink it? i guess, hahahah
Allegory
Gogo ♔
: yeah, that funky ass glow when it is NOT metal (reflective of environment, should be blue becausse sky) or rough (somewhat reflective of environment, more of light sources) without a reflection probe was part of the "wait wtf is going on here" and has once again changed some of my plans on how i plan to go forward.
Allegory
this was partly a test (of something recent so easy to find/make parts) of the way PBR SHOULD be textured (color texture PBR row) vs. how i was intending on doing things (baked texture PBR/baked texture gloss enviro). how well the render engine does the heavy lifting on actually providing that detail. which is MOSTLY better than expected
Allegory
even in not fantastic light (though i have not tested everything) the color texture works better than i expected it to...but i'm still leaning towards no.
Allegory
and the lack of a decent "default" reflection probe...it's all way too uncontrollable, which makes it very hard if you CARE what things look like.
Hamlet_Au
Allegory
: Awesomeness! May I feature this on NWN?!
Mmw Strangelove
I love that! Cutest chopstick rests ever
Allegory
Hamlet_Au
: you can try? hahah it's not the clearest ever on what's really going on, this is half notes to myself so i don't lose where i am in trying to figure out what is what on testing.
✴Sparkling✴
Allegory
: you are amazing! I really appreciate all your efforts and testing with this.
Allegory
side view now with half assed labels to MAYBE give some idea of wtf you are looking at. but it's where you see the way environment is hitting even non shiny PBR textures very differently from texture+normal. and haloing like whoa without a reflection probe on PBR shiny
side view now with half assed labels to MAYBE give some idea of wtf you are looking at. but it's where you see the way environment is hitting even non shiny PBR textures very differently from texture+normal. and haloing like whoa without a reflection probe on PBR shiny
Allegory
and that sharp line there is the reflection probe itself making everything a little darker- the lines aren't always as obvious, but the more the reflection probe is fixing, the more the line exists.