p/pdl3ya

Quinn Angstrom

@quinn2win

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 12:52 AM

Pontificating about the term "bullet hell"

Quinn Angstrom

@quinn2win

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 12:52 AM

I think we need to split it.

Quinn Angstrom

@quinn2win

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 12:53 AM

because it's losing all meaning

Quinn Angstrom

@quinn2win

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 12:54 AM

https://images.plurk.com/3wHUYxK3I1AfSmKbAz78Vo.png

https://images.plurk.com/37cAeAa1h328iwsdQRgRkX.png

https://images.plurk.com/7pJuzro8FOkUBHuIZwJFX9.png

this is what I think when I say bullet hell

Quinn Angstrom

@quinn2win

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 12:54 AM

then I go look at the steam bullet hell category.

HotXC

@UltraDude

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 12:55 AM

HELL SHOULD BE HELL

Quinn Angstrom

@quinn2win

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 12:55 AM

https://images.plurk.com/4kcjP8bDr4OglRLdeStm3L.png

https://images.plurk.com/2xKrpRYygYOe0OIsoUH2bt.png

https://images.plurk.com/3pbPRxWiDjpJoLQyDi3Pcl.png

Quinn Angstrom

@quinn2win

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 12:56 AM

these are not the same genre.

moontouched

@rukafais

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 12:56 AM

i do agree with your split in categorization of like

moontouched

@rukafais

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 12:56 AM

Bullet Heck and Bullet Hell

Quinn Angstrom

@quinn2win

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 12:56 AM

they both have "a large number of bullets are on screen" but that's about it. even cuphead seldom goes over like 20 bullets.

moontouched

@rukafais

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 12:56 AM

Bullet Heck is still alarming but it's not The Neverending Pattern Dodge

Quinn Angstrom

@quinn2win

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 12:56 AM

vampire survivors you aren't dodging basically anything. I've heard the term Bullet Heaven for it, which I don't hate

Quinn Angstrom

@quinn2win

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 12:57 AM

returnal isn't bullet hell, because from what I've seen, 99% of the time you can avoid all patterns by dodging to the left a little

Echo

@EchoDoctor

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 12:57 AM

Bullet Limbo

Quinn Angstrom

@quinn2win

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 12:57 AM

to me, bullet hell is about seeing an overwhelming flood of bullets and having to weave between them extremely tightly

Quinn Angstrom

@quinn2win

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 12:57 AM

the second part is missing from... nearly every game steam has tagged as bullet hell

Quinn Angstrom

@quinn2win

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 12:58 AM

I know I suggested Bullet Heck but if I advocate for that name then I feel like I'm definitely a LITTLE bit of a hypocrite

Quinn Angstrom

@quinn2win

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 12:59 AM

because it's basically identical to Roguelike vs Roguelite

Quinn Angstrom

@quinn2win

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 12:59 AM

like Nier isn't a lesser, for babieser game than Touhou

Echo

@EchoDoctor

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 12:59 AM

"Bullet heck" is at least funny, though.

Quinn Angstrom

@quinn2win

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 12:59 AM

it just has different structure and priorities

Quinn Angstrom

@quinn2win

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 12:59 AM

it IS funny

Quinn Angstrom

@quinn2win

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 12:59 AM

I wouldn't call nier Bullet Hell Lite, I'd call it a 3D Action Game with some bullet patterns in it

Bloodededeborne

@doctoransem

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 1:01 AM

Bullet hell is a focus on dodging bullets

Quinn Angstrom

@quinn2win

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 1:01 AM

you're in hell because of all the bullets everywhere

Bloodededeborne

@doctoransem

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 1:01 AM

Games that throw lots of bullets at you can be considered to have "bullet hellements".

Bloodededeborne

@doctoransem

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 1:02 AM

i.e. bosses from Gungeon, Rabi-ribi, etc.

Bloodededeborne

@doctoransem

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 1:02 AM

And then I'd definitely pick Vampire Survivors as Bullet Heaven.

Quinn Angstrom

@quinn2win

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 1:02 AM

it's Bullet Heaven if the danmaku is yours

Bloodededeborne

@doctoransem

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 1:02 AM

Correct

skerple

@songofkeys

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 1:11 AM

yeah I'm in favor of Bullet Heaven for Vampire Survivors and any game where you are the one doing the danmaku

oh i'm scary

@yurisoldier

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 1:57 AM

Nier is an action RPG made by a guy who really really likes bullet hell

oh i'm scary

@yurisoldier

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 1:58 AM

like, it's A Reference

oh i'm scary

@yurisoldier

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 2:00 AM

that said

oh i'm scary

@yurisoldier

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 2:00 AM

I'm gonna hit you with a counterpoint

oh i'm scary

@yurisoldier

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 2:01 AM

https://images.plurk.com/1MS0llYXc1o39MiYPVyTht.png

platformer

oh i'm scary

@yurisoldier

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 2:02 AM

https://images.plurk.com/2VZjwrLvhlhT9oabQPimCJ.png

platformer

oh i'm scary

@yurisoldier

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 2:03 AM

Cuphead and Vampire Survivors I think are pretty bad fits but you mentioned this about Armored Core too and with that and Nier I think "3D bullet hell" is a reasonable designation

oh i'm scary

@yurisoldier

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 2:04 AM

and Returnal I guess, I never actually got to the parts of that that people call bullet hell and it's so weird to me to imagine because what I played of it was so slow--

oh i'm scary

@yurisoldier

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 2:04 AM

anyway.

Quinn Angstrom

@quinn2win

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 2:04 AM

really what it comes down to is that the concept of video game genres is fundamentally broken

penis bacon

@flare_sword

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 2:35 AM

The Japanese "danmaku" is a bit more apt than 'bullet hell' for those broad sweeps of "lots of bullets but no dodging", because it literally translates to 'bullet curtain'

penis bacon

@flare_sword

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 2:36 AM

which would apply to things like Returnal or Vampire Survivors (less so something like Cuphead or even lower-quantity shmups like Gradius)

penis bacon

@flare_sword

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 2:36 AM

but yeah, the name is... there's a certain level of implications there that just feels weird to spread around

penis bacon

@flare_sword

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 2:39 AM

murkrows: ironically before people started insisting on 'platformer' describing all mascot games (from obstacle course games to collectathons and everything in between) it was just 'action game' which may have been too broad but like, it's also more consistently true

The Zemblanity!

@mattnificent

Mon, Sep 4, 2023 4:06 PM

I play a lot of Archero & it's definitely like. Bullet Heaven, except a few boss levels of Bullet Hell or maybe Bullet Purgatory.