Quinn Angstrom
Pontificating about the term "bullet hell"
Quinn Angstrom
I think we need to split it.
Quinn Angstrom
because it's losing all meaning
Quinn Angstrom
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this is what I think when I say bullet hell
Quinn Angstrom
then I go look at the steam bullet hell category.
HotXC
HELL SHOULD BE HELL
Quinn Angstrom
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Quinn Angstrom
these are not the same genre.
moontouched
i do agree with your split in categorization of like
moontouched
Bullet Heck and Bullet Hell
Quinn Angstrom
they both have "a large number of bullets are on screen" but that's about it. even cuphead seldom goes over like 20 bullets.
moontouched
Bullet Heck is still alarming but it's not The Neverending Pattern Dodge
Quinn Angstrom
vampire survivors you aren't dodging basically anything. I've heard the term Bullet Heaven for it, which I don't hate
Quinn Angstrom
returnal isn't bullet hell, because from what I've seen, 99% of the time you can avoid all patterns by dodging to the left a little
Echo
Bullet Limbo
Quinn Angstrom
to me, bullet hell is about seeing an overwhelming flood of bullets and having to weave between them extremely tightly
Quinn Angstrom
the second part is missing from... nearly every game steam has tagged as bullet hell
Quinn Angstrom
I know I suggested Bullet Heck but if I advocate for that name then I feel like I'm definitely a LITTLE bit of a hypocrite
Quinn Angstrom
because it's basically identical to Roguelike vs Roguelite
Quinn Angstrom
like Nier isn't a lesser, for babieser game than Touhou
Echo
"Bullet heck" is at least funny, though.
Quinn Angstrom
it just has different structure and priorities
Quinn Angstrom
it IS funny
Quinn Angstrom
I wouldn't call nier Bullet Hell Lite, I'd call it a 3D Action Game with some bullet patterns in it
Bloodededeborne
Bullet hell is a focus on dodging bullets
Quinn Angstrom
you're in hell because of all the bullets everywhere
Bloodededeborne
Games that throw lots of bullets at you can be considered to have "bullet hellements".
Bloodededeborne
i.e. bosses from Gungeon, Rabi-ribi, etc.
Bloodededeborne
And then I'd definitely pick Vampire Survivors as Bullet Heaven.
Quinn Angstrom
it's Bullet Heaven if the danmaku is yours
Bloodededeborne
Correct
skerple
yeah I'm in favor of Bullet Heaven for Vampire Survivors and any game where you are the one doing the danmaku
oh i'm scary
Nier is an action RPG made by a guy who really really likes bullet hell
oh i'm scary
like, it's A Reference
oh i'm scary
that said
oh i'm scary
I'm gonna hit you with a counterpoint
oh i'm scary
https://images.plurk.com/1MS0llYXc1o39MiYPVyTht.png
platformer
oh i'm scary
https://images.plurk.com/2VZjwrLvhlhT9oabQPimCJ.png
platformer
oh i'm scary
Cuphead and Vampire Survivors I think are pretty bad fits but you mentioned this about Armored Core too and with that and Nier I think "3D bullet hell" is a reasonable designation
oh i'm scary
and Returnal I guess, I never actually got to the parts of that that people call bullet hell and it's so weird to me to imagine because what I played of it was so slow--
oh i'm scary
anyway.
Quinn Angstrom
really what it comes down to is that the concept of video game genres is fundamentally broken
penis bacon
The Japanese "danmaku" is a bit more apt than 'bullet hell' for those broad sweeps of "lots of bullets but no dodging", because it literally translates to 'bullet curtain'
penis bacon
which would apply to things like Returnal or Vampire Survivors (less so something like Cuphead or even lower-quantity shmups like Gradius)
penis bacon
but yeah, the name is... there's a certain level of implications there that just feels weird to spread around
penis bacon
murkrows: ironically before people started insisting on 'platformer' describing all mascot games (from obstacle course games to collectathons and everything in between) it was just 'action game' which may have been too broad but like, it's also more consistently true
The Zemblanity!
I play a lot of Archero & it's definitely like. Bullet Heaven, except a few boss levels of Bullet Hell or maybe Bullet Purgatory.
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