Dr. Yubsie
Man, no one has as many opinions about what Girl Guides should do as people who haven't been involved in the organization in DECADES. (Yeah, people BIG MAD about the Brownies--> Embers thing)
Dr. Yubsie
And like you can TELL they haven't had anything to do with the organization in ages because they're talking about the uniforms like all the kids haven't been wearing the same navy t-shirt for years now
Teeff
times change people, please calm the fuck down
Teeff
so long as it's letting kiddos have fun and learn in a safe envrionment the rest is totally okay with changing with the times
Dr. Yubsie
LIterally the ONLY thing that changed is the name
Dr. Yubsie
(Okay, a TON of stuff has changed since THESE people were last in the organization because it's the 21st century but in general)
Dr. Yubsie
And like yeah, I never thought about the name Brownies that way... because I never HAD to
serpentcyborg
My first thought was 'embers is a nice name'
Dr. Yubsie
Especially since our youngest branch is Sparks!
serpentcyborg
So it works!
Dr. Yubsie
The girls got to vote on whether they wanted Embers or Comets
Teeff
oh see that's so cute!!!
Teeff
Sparks and Embers!
Dr. Yubsie
I don't know what the breakdown was like nationally, but the informal poll we did during the enrollment went like 75% Embers
Teeff
I was a Brownie but I was you know, a literal child. it was the 80s - I didn't see the issue then because I just stuck with the "hey it's fae stuff" but times DO change and people need to unclench
Teeff
it's not like changing the name has destroyed my childhood memories
Dr. Yubsie
I feel like that bit of folklore has gotten a lot more obscure
Teeff
it really has!
Dr. Yubsie
ANd I never thought about it as a kid because, well, my town was SUPER white
Teeff
yup same
serpentcyborg
Like...I was a brownie and didn't see an issue, because I was well aware it was referring to the helpful fae creature
Dr. Yubsie
The story we read at the beginning of the year is really rooted in the folklore, so the kids would at least know about, but the barrier was racialized girls not even wanting to join because of the name
Dr. Yubsie
They're holding a contest for the Sparks, Embers and Guides to write a new story and then the Rangers and Pathfinders are going to vote on their favourites to make the shortlist
serpentcyborg
And would I love for the kids to learn the lore and the reason behind the original name? Absolutely! But there's no reason to keep that as the name when it's creating that barrier
Dr. Yubsie
They have a panel of writers to make the final selection
Teeff
exactly and if it's preventing kids from feeling comfortable with joining, something's gotta change
Dr. Yubsie
I'm curious of other WAGGGS organizations are going to follow suit since Brownies seems to be the most universal branch name
proтoвadger
as a kid I always thought brownies were about the baked goods
Dr. Yubsie
I just keep shaking my head "Is this a ploy to sell brand new uniforms?" Well... given that every branch now wears the SAME uniform precisely to make the uniforms less of a financial burden for families... no?
Dr. Yubsie
(This way you don't have a bunch of third year Guides running around in uniforms that CLEARLY DON'T FIT but the parents are reluctant to get a new one when they'll need ANOTHER new one in the fall when they star Pathfinders)
serpentcyborg
I'm hoping they'll do something where the existing uniform is still used, but any new uniform will be in the new design
Dr. Yubsie
They don't need to change anything at all, actually
Blighty
tbh it's a cute name but it's outdated in more ways than one
Blighty
it would have been perfectly reasonable to have a name change even without the racial issues
Blighty
i suspect the only reason there is outrage is
Blighty
well you can fill in the blanks
Dr. Yubsie
serpentcyborg
: All branches now wear this uniform: 
Blighty
if this had not been a racial issue and was instead just 'hey it's time to update this name because we're in 2023 and no one knows what this means anymore', i am sure plenty of the (white) people upset now would not be
Dr. Yubsie
Oh, no doubt
Dr. Yubsie
Because the change is "woke" they're all bent out of shape
serpentcyborg
In that case, I'd see no reason why they'd change the uniform
serpentcyborg
I honestly hadn't seen the uniform since it was an all brown uniform
Dr. Yubsie
Yeah, that's what it was when I was a kid
Dr. Yubsie
They brought this one in about five years ago
serpentcyborg
So yeah, there's no reason that should change
spacey witchmas
oh wow I always thought they were Brownies because of the food lmao
Dr. Yubsie
And before that it was STILL mostly blue, with a pink stripe for Sparks, brown for Brownies etcs
Teeff
dhdjhd yeah I rmemeber it being brown and yellow
Lel
that looks so much more practical and comfortable than the old uniform
Dr. Yubsie
They'll probably change the tie to be orange, but it's gone back and forth between brown and orange for ages and they usually forget to wear it anyway
Dr. Yubsie
Lel
: RIGHT? The exact same people were horrified when this uniform was announced 
spacey witchmas
I wonder if the US is also changing theirs
Dr. Yubsie
Because it didn't "look smart"
Dr. Yubsie
To which my response was always "It is FOR CHILDREN"
Teeff
children don't need to be smart!!!
Lel
I mean I was never in it as a kid, but I remember looking at it in the brochures schools would hand out sometimes and going "they want us to go camping in that?"
Dr. Yubsie
When I was a kid we didn't wear the uniform to camp
Dr. Yubsie
My mom had a separate "camp uniform" that had shorts
serpentcyborg
We didn't wear the uniform to camp, but it wouldn't have mattered with my local troupe for reasons I was always disappointed in
serpentcyborg
Because with the local troupe the boyscouts would actually do real camping and learning skills associated with that
lucineblue
oh GOSH i didn't even think about how that name is racialized, holy shit yeah change it
Dr. Yubsie
My leaders were SCANDALIZED that my mother got me this version of the uniform
My leaders were SCANDALIZED that my mother got me this version of the uniform
Dr. Yubsie
My mother's logic of course being "My child is six years old. Pants are far more practical."
serpentcyborg
With the girl scouts at the time it was like 'you'll 'camp' in this temperature controlled building with running water'
Dr. Yubsie
I am, admittedly, planning to do cabins for the Embers' first camp because I want to ease them into it
Cerise ♢
Ooh, Embers is a nice pick for the new name! My first reaction was campfire, as we don't call our youngest Guides Sparks over here.
serpentcyborg
Yeah, my annoyance was more that it was like that throughout girl scouts, not just with brownies
Dr. Yubsie
Guides on up tent if it's not the middle of winter, and Pathfinders often start trying to tend even in winter
serpentcyborg
So comparing notes with my brother, it had been very obvious to me that the difference was because of boy/girl lines, not age
Dr. Yubsie
lucineblue
: RIGHT? So many of us never thought about it because we never HAD to
Dr. Yubsie
serpentcyborg
: Ugh, yeah, that's nonsense. For the older girls the program requirements actually specify tent for a lot of stuff
serpentcyborg
I appreciate that
serpentcyborg
Because they basically focused all on making crafts with the girl scouts without doing anything with any real camping no matter how old we got
serpentcyborg
So I'd hear about all the cool stuff my brother got to do and we...made crafts
serpentcyborg
Which crafts are nice
serpentcyborg
But when my brother got to learn how to cook over the fire and go canoing and caving, and we...made scrunchies
Dr. Yubsie
... yeah
Dr. Yubsie
Even last year when we couldn't TAKE them camping because the under-12 set had to be two kids per sleeping space, we took them to a park and pitched tents and made s'mores
serpentcyborg
Yeah, that sounds so much better
lucineblue
Dr. Yubsie
: I'd either think of the cookies or fae folk, oh my god 
how many great kids felt like they couldn't... because of the name...
how many great kids felt like they couldn't... because of the name...
Dr. Yubsie
And now they can!
serpentcyborg
Yes! And if people are concerned about the folklore, teach them the stories of Maggy Moulach!
Dr. Yubsie
And their circles are still folklore names, so they can learn about it there
Cerise ♢
And even if you go with the fae connotation not the ... eek ... one, it's changing away from the 'this is about being Helpful' story to 'this is about being Active', it seems to me?
Cerise ♢
But this is just mutters from someone totally outside the thing.
Dr. Yubsie
The current promise is "I promise, to do my best, to be true to myself, my beliefs and Canada. I will take action for a better world and respect the Ember (Guiding for the older girls) law"
serpentcyborg
Also, it should be noted that while Brownies are helpful creatures, they're also incredibly vengeful if you piss them off and will shank a bitch to death with a stool
Dr. Yubsie
... I mean, have you met seven year old girls?
serpentcyborg
True, that might have been an accurate name
Cerise ♢
So less possibly taunting the fair folk too.
Dr. Yubsie
And the explanation for the new name was all about the POTENTIAL in an ember
Dr. Yubsie
Another important quality was that both name candidates had TWO SYLLABLES
akinoame
My only real disappointments with "Embers" are that 1) "embers" are usually used more to signal the dying of a fire, as opposed to the start; so if you start as a "Spark" maybe you should advance to "Flame", and 2) you're telling me that "Comets" was a possibility and they voted against it?
Dr. Yubsie
For whatever reason Comets didn't resonate with them as much as Embers
Dr. Yubsie
Embers can also be used to kindle a new fire and "Flame" wouldn't scan to any of the old songs
Dr. Yubsie
It was VITALLY IMPORTANT that the new name have two syllables
shinotenshi22
Okay, I remember when the shorts and tee-shirt (in brown) was new.
shinotenshi22
<--was a Brownie in England with the old brown dress and yellow tie
Dr. Yubsie
The Canadian and English uniforms were fairly similar up until roughly that point
SeeYouInShibuya
Lucky you I had the stiff brown dress with the pouch belt XD
Dr. Yubsie
The back is what my leaders WANTED me to wear
The back is what my leaders WANTED me to wear
shinotenshi22
I remember the pouch belt. I thought it was actually cool
SeeYouInShibuya
Yes, that's what I had XD
shinotenshi22
also agreeing that the new name=good
SeeYouInShibuya
And I had the dress in Guides too, but finally I was allowed pants in Pathfinders 
shinotenshi22
in case it wasn't obvious.
Dr. Yubsie
Note that this is a photo from the catalogue so MY SCANDALOUS PANTS WERE OFFICIAL DAMMIT
shinotenshi22
(My Girl Scout troupe was...lackluster. We did mostly crafts--and I LIKE crafts, but I'd have liked more active stuff too)
Dr. Yubsie
I had the dress in Guides because my mom was tired of fighting allt he leaders
Dr. Yubsie
And then in Pathfinders there was no official bottoms so we wore jeans except on special occasions when we'd wear skirts. Because it was a special occasion.
SeeYouInShibuya
My leaders didn't care one way or another.
SeeYouInShibuya
Oh we had to wear navy pants, I remember my mom scouring Value Village for them
Dr. Yubsie
My leaders were Old School British
Dr. Yubsie
The last iteration of the uniform was supposed to be navy or black pants but in practice with the little ones no one really cared
SeeYouInShibuya
I was a Cadet - like no one was a Cadet - and I got to wear jeans then. Freedom at 17 
But we had this super uncomfortable blouse
But we had this super uncomfortable blouse
Dr. Yubsie
Now it's explicitly "whatever bottoms they feel comfortable in"
SeeYouInShibuya
Our Cadet troupe had 3 people in it and I was one of them
Dr. Yubsie
I was the only person in any of the senior branches in the entirety of Albert Division
Dr. Yubsie
Like when I went to get my Canada Cord they kept introducing me as "And this is Albert" because I was the only one there
SeeYouInShibuya
Quite a few people become Jr. Leaders
Dr. Yubsie
And then the Lieutenant Governor forgot to actually give me the cord
SeeYouInShibuya
Yeah I got my Canada Cord too
SeeYouInShibuya
And then - even more rare - I was a Link member
SeeYouInShibuya
I was in girl guides for 19 years XD
Dr. Yubsie
I did not do LInks
SeeYouInShibuya
Gave me something to do when I was far away from home at University
Dr. Yubsie
However when my GUider went to get the 13 year service star for my last year of Rangers the person at the shop went "We MAKE those?"
SeeYouInShibuya
Dr. Yubsie
Because I was a Spark the second year Sparks existed, which meant it was only the second year a girl member could get a 13 year star
SeeYouInShibuya
I wasn't a Spark but I do think I was a couple months early on being a Brownie
SeeYouInShibuya
They didn't have Sparks
Dr. Yubsie
(This made the Embers think I was a million years old and ask me if I had kids or grandkids and I was very proud that I didn't cry)
SeeYouInShibuya
Ouch XD
SeeYouInShibuya
Oh google says they might've had sparks. Maybe just not in my area. I dunno I think my mom got suckered into volunteering is how all that came about
Dr. Yubsie
1989 is whe Sparks started
SeeYouInShibuya
Yeah, probably just didn't have a group at the church
Dr. Yubsie
I have an adult sized SPark shirt that they released for the 30th anniversary
SeeYouInShibuya
Oh that's pretty cool
StupidSexyV⚠der
oh Sparks and Embers makes so much sense!