Quinneapolis
I'm struggling with witch knights because I may have accidentally made it morally absolutist
Quinneapolis
necromancy isn't evil because it's unchecked capitalism it's evil because the basis for the setting was random neurons firing while i was asleep and necromancy seems evil just based on cultural vibes
Quinneapolis
necromancers and witches don't make any inherent sense as opposing forces
Gabiluzbad
Do you want to tear it down and rebuild it or just dump it?
Quinneapolis
I'm not sure
Quinneapolis
honestly I'm not sure necromancy even needs to be a thing in the story, it mightmake more sense if magic is just witchcraft
Gabiluzbad
I wasn’t super happy with my character concept so I’d be fine with that
Dragomorph
i do have a suggestion: lean into the marxism.
Dragomorph
Instead of making it a single school of magic versus all the other schools of magic, think of it more as aims of magic. One that's symbiotic and focused on creation, one that's parasitic and focused solely on what someone can get for themselves.
Dragomorph
Basically "exchanging labor for services" versus "exchanging labor for capital."
Dragomorph
So it's not necessarily necromancy in itself that's an issue, it's the utilization of it in a way that deprives others morally, materially, or spirituallly.
Dragomorph
And also may include other magical forms.
Dragomorph
(Enchantment, destruction, etc.)
Dragomorph
In other words, see magic by itself as a sort of representation of capitalism and patriarchy, in which it is a tool whose aims get altered and distorted.
Quinneapolis
so by removing the witch/necromancer dichotomy, you have magic as a general force
Quinneapolis
one group using it to improve lives, the other using it to centralize power
Quinneapolis
the latter trying to prevent public knowledge of the existence of magic because that would disrupt their position as the capitalist uberfucks at the top
Dragomorph
exactly
Quinneapolis
there's a vibe central to the setting's core of like
Quinneapolis
magic can make the world a massively better place, post-magic earth will be much happier for everyone than pre-magic earth
Quinneapolis
but an elite class is hoarding it so obsessively that they refuse to let other people even know it exists
Quinneapolis
and part of the central quest of the witch knights is to break open the vault and let the world know what's been kept from them
Dragomorph
Can, yes. Whether it will or not is hard to say, but utilized in a productive manner it's more likely to than utilizing it under the current system.
Gabiluzbad
Are the heroes also acting in secret or are they actively spreading the word?
Dragomorph
Like $1 versus $10 versus $1 million versus $1 billion
Quinneapolis
Quinneapolis
on one hand, they want the people to know so it wouldn't make sense for it to be secret in that sense
Dragomorph
i mean people actively spread the word of the dangers of capitalism in reality and The Man just discredits it as "lib" talk
Dragomorph
so there's no real reason to keep it secret as long as the jerks in power are deplatforming it anyway
Quinneapolis
but on the other hand
Quinneapolis
the WKs are massively outgunned and outmanned by the system they're fighting
Quinneapolis
so drawing more attention to themselves is very dangerous (but also very rewarding)
Quinneapolis
and cool heroes do risky things for good reasons, so
Quinneapolis
no they don't operate in secret
Gabiluzbad
Maybe WKs are acting in secret at first
Quinneapolis
they openly use magic and their enemies spread misinformation about it
Quinneapolis
via "sufficently advanced technology"
Quinneapolis
and general information control
Quinneapolis
and murder
Gabiluzbad
And the protagonist pulls a Hajime Gatchamancrowds
Quinneapolis
YES
Quinneapolis
"Hey what if we just go on TV"
Quinneapolis
"Tell everyone that magic is real and that they can have it"
Gabiluzbad
They always held back out of fear that they’d be too big targets if they acted openly
Gabiluzbad
Since they’re the last hope of taking down the bad guys
Quinneapolis
but you can't start a revolution without making a racket
Gabiluzbad
Are we still calling them necropolis?
Quinneapolis
no
Quinneapolis
I'm dropping the necromancy angle
Quinneapolis
which means I need to rework the antagonist group
Quinneapolis
so still be interesting
Quinneapolis
still a secret society hoarding knowledge and power
Gabiluzbad
They’re kinda Ribbons-esque right?
Quinneapolis
yeah
Quinneapolis
manipulating the world via plants in other organizations
Quinneapolis
immune to the laws of society
Quinneapolis
admin users
Quinneapolis
you don't hire one, they just show up in your records
Quinneapolis
what they need is a core thematic hook, a narrative aesthetic
Quinneapolis
otherwise they're just Magical Evil Rich Guys, which is what they are but also it's been done plenty of times
Gabiluzbad
Gotta make sure to differentiate them from the Hand of Providence
Quinneapolis
yeah we're in very similar ground to inhand
Quinneapolis
which is why I'm giving this part so much thought
Gabiluzbad
I’m just spitballing here but
Quinneapolis
our right-wing wizard illuminati
Gabiluzbad
What if we go with a reincarnation angle
Gabiluzbad
The same 8 people have just been getting reborn for hundreds or maybe thousands of years and ruling the world
Quinneapolis
there's a lot of ways that could go and all of them are upsetting
Gabiluzbad
Normally when you die you lose all your memories and shit but these guys have been working together so when one of them dies the others hunt down their reincarnation and artificially install the previous personality and memory
Gabiluzbad
Sure that means overwriting a person but eh
Gabiluzbad
They bring STABILITY to the world and that is worth sacrifice
Gabiluzbad
they bring STABITY
Quinneapolis
my mind goes to
Quinneapolis
is reincarnation real
Quinneapolis
or are they just picking a person and downloading some soul essence into them
Gabiluzbad
The latter choice makes them much more horrifying
Gabiluzbad
They’re innovates except instead of cloning new bodies they just grab people off the streets
Gabiluzbad
Innovades*
Quinneapolis
they probably have exacting parameters that a new host needs to meet
Quinneapolis
they can't just steal random babies they need to find suitable hosts young and condition them until they are ready to be formatted
Quinneapolis
and instead of Veda the souls just float in their massive stockpile of magical energy until they can be uploaded into a body
Quinneapolis
their phylactery
Gabiluzbad
There’s a whole process for stripping their identity away to the point that you can overwrite them
Gabiluzbad
If you leave too much of the original the new mind will be fighting for control
Quinneapolis
I think the core difference is that the Hand of Providence were, under all their fancy rituals and powers
Quinneapolis
just regular greedy fuckups
Quinneapolis
these guys have removed themselves so far from ordinary human existence that they're like fucking aliens
Gabiluzbad
(Btw Phylacteries are a real Jewish religious artifact and D&D is moving away from connecting the word to evil undead wizards to be less antisemitic)
Quinneapolis
oh ok
Quinneapolis
is there a replacement word for "immortal evil wizard's aliveness rock" or is it still in limbo
Gabiluzbad
But I do like the idea of a villain group that is talking about the greater good while also constantly committing atrocities to consolidate their own power but they actually believe their own story
Gabiluzbad
Quinneapolis : Soul Cage is the new word
Gabiluzbad
They’re just like “if we died there would be CHAOS. This is for your own good.”
Gabiluzbad
And they actually mean it
Gabiluzbad
They truly believe they are all that stands between civilization and the end of the world
Gabiluzbad
Is what I’m imagining
Quinneapolis
it works, at least for now
EsperBot
The etymology is a little questionable re: the lich thing, but there's zero cost to transitioning to 'reliquary' which means the same thing but more general and is also a more balling word
Dragomorph
i did a help again :|b
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