duck bastard
[stupid ass queer shit/radfem BDSM-hating bullshit] someone is trying to convince me that top/bottom shit is heteronormative
duck bastard
and they gave me an article that opens with
duck bastard
Traditional gender ideology demands that straight couples function in complementary and dichotomous ways. Straight men are expected to be dominant and strong, while straight women are expected to be submissive and soft, among other things.
duck bastard
This ideological structure is also reflected in straight couples’ sexual activities, where men penetrate women’s bodies
duck bastard
Over time, gay men have adopted these dominant and submissive roles, particularly with respect to sexual activity. Men who penetrate other men are “tops,” while men who get penetrated by other men are “bottoms.”v
duck bastard
and i'm just staring at this like that keanu reeves meme
duck bastard
buddy. that's just how penetrative sex. works.
bbcakes
i mean, the expectation that EVERYONE falls into top/bottom roles CONSISTENTLY is heternormative
duck bastard
it's not an ""ideological structure" for SOMEONE WITH A PENIS TO PENETRATE THE PERSON WITHOUT
duck bastard
that is just how vanilla cishet sex works
duck bastard
oh yeah, like - if you're constantly demanding people fall in line with that shit, that'd be a problem
papermint tiger
but it's also a fact that some people prefer one role or the other and saying they're 'heteronormative' for wanting to get their ass pounded is kind of rude
bbcakes
yeah
duck bastard
but the idea of people - yeah
bbcakes
precisely
bbcakes
like one only needs to look at grindr to understand that preferences Are A Thing
MR SEPHIROTH
you could say the way people talk about it is often heteronormative, but I think that's... different.....
papermint tiger
i will say that it may be a problem in gay circles that some men see themselves as not manly for wanting to be a bottom, but that's more an issue of toxic masculinity
🔥ғɪʀᴇ ғɪsᴛ ᴀᴄᴇ🔥
What the hell
duck bastard
this person is literally trying to convince me that the article doesn't open up by essentially saying that cishete sex is founded on a misogynistic ideology
duck bastard
instead of just how basica vanilla ass sex works
Gayple
there's also lots of ways to have sex that aren't penetrative
𝙵𝙰𝚆𝙽𝙸𝙴!! 🌱
klMFJJFRHG this is such a fucking 2010s argument lmfao CHRIST
𝙵𝙰𝚆𝙽𝙸𝙴!! 🌱
these ppl just need to touch grass honestly, all the men I've ever known through furry & queer sex positive spaces who are transparent abt their sex lives love to share their prefs. just leave ppl alone and stop policing how they have sex. fuck's sake.
papermint tiger
i think the real heteronormative thing is to go up to a gay couple and ask 'who's the woman in the relationship'
duck bastard
considering this sprung from the "safewords are rape culture" argument, it's very hard for them to leave people alone in their sex lives
мσяɗяєɗ ρнαηтσм
????? safewords are like. literally the opposite of rape culture though?????
papermint tiger
.......................................uh what
papermint tiger
how the fuck are safewords rape culture
duck bastard
their argument is literally "NORMAL PEOPLE JUST USE NO, ANYONE WHO IGNORES THAT IS NORMALIZING RAPE"
duck bastard
it's all just radfem shit
papermint tiger
anyone who says that has never had sex
Calliente
Safewords evolved from BDSM, correct? And are specifically chosen because there are scenes/scenarios in BDSM where someone might say 'no' but it's not a request to stop so much as it's part of the scene?
Calliente
So you pick a very specific and unique safeword that wouldn't naturally come up and establish ahead of time that saying THAT is what actually means "stop, I don't want what's happening rn"
Calliente
It's explicitly a careful establishment of what constitutes a revocation of consent in situations where "no" could be misunderstood/ambiguous due to the nature of the sexual activity
Calliente
So yeah, it is 1000% the opposite of rape culture because it establishes both consent and what signals a LACK of consent
𝙵𝙰𝚆𝙽𝙸𝙴!! 🌱
^^^^^^^^
𝙵𝙰𝚆𝙽𝙸𝙴!! 🌱
plus as a rape victim and BDSM enjoyer it makes me feel :-) such a way :-) when internet people try to tell survivors how to healthily enjoy sex
Calliente
People who would ignore a 'no' in the contexts where safeword are usually used would be ignoring it specifically because it's hard to tell if it's ACTUALLY a request to stop because of the nature of sex scenes, NOT BECAUSE THEY'RE RAPISTS
Calliente
That's WHY they establish a safeword that can't be misinterpreted!!!!
𝙵𝙰𝚆𝙽𝙸𝙴!! 🌱
sex trauma is life changing & horrible. for anyone to get to a point where they can reclaim their sexuality and enjoy sex again, that's empowering and great
𝙵𝙰𝚆𝙽𝙸𝙴!! 🌱
just jhgjhfjhgkgjg :-) GOES FERAL
Calliente
When 'no' can be ambiguous in those contexts, they find something that won't be!!! Because they care about consent!!!
мσяɗяєɗ ρнαηтσм
yeah i've seen the argument that even couples who don't do bdsm should have a safeword so you can stop if someone's overwhelmed or changed their mind or whatever and i think that's a great idea too! safewords are all about consent
duck bastard
I mentioned the playful person who said they have orgasms so intense they feel like a werewolf and say "stop" just automatically even though they don't mean it
duck bastard
and Safewords Are Rape Culture person tried to tell them that they'd been influenced by porn too much or some bullshit
duck bastard
which, what a wild thing to say even without the condescending infantilization
duck bastard
"have really fantastic orgasms with your partner? well, have you blamed porn-"
papermint tiger
if porn is responsible for that, more people should watch it
Calliente
Blaming fantastic orgasms on porn - like...radfems are trying to convince people porn is BAD, right
Calliente
They might want to be careful they don't cause stampedes to the sex shops when they're that bad at making their argument...
Calliente
Makes me think of when TERFs try to demonize trans people and find turns of phrase that just make us sound incredibly cool
Cookie Politics
the thing you have to understand about the modern radfem is that they think all men are rapists (yes, even gay men), think that women are incapable of consenting to much of anything, particularly sex, and this is the base premise that most of the other fuckery is based on
papermint tiger
that's horrifying on several levels
Cookie Politics
yeah, it's why the most people who were radfems or at least respected what they had to say back in the day all ditched it by the the time you get to the feminist sex wars, because lesbian separatism, which is more like modern radfem than the original radfem is, isn't interested in equality so much as, well, separation
ᴅɪꜱꜱᴏʟᴠᴇᴅ ɢɪʀʟ
I ain't ever gonna forget that when it comes to porn and kink these rad fem bitches will end up in bed with conservatives and like... those people don't even want you living a public life, wtf are y'all doing?
Lea
They're thinking "I will do anything to make people stop talking about things that make me uncomfortable."
nɑnɑmin
safewords can also take the stress out of asking to stop. so like what????
☽ ʀᴏsᴇ ᴋɪɴɢ
not everyone's a switch and even between switches, there are still preferences
☽ ʀᴏsᴇ ᴋɪɴɢ
Also the reason safewords are there is because it's literally a stop button. Most people establish a safeword that takes them out of the mood immediately that their partner wouldn't be able to continue.
Cookie Politics
safewords are the sex version of a director yelling "cut"
Cookie Politics
and the "reason" behind a lot of kinky sex is the same "reason" for rollercoasters, skydiving, and various other sports, "heart rate go up" from adrenaline feels good in a controlled situation
papermint tiger
some people can only get off with kinky sex and that's fine if everyone in the situation is a consenting adult
bbcakes
getting off is heteronormative
bbcakes
https://images.plurk.com/3RyVdGfCXdRXBuWkzL8Bq7.png
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