Pixle
[Bayonetta VA Drama] In case people have not been following, now apparently the original VA was going to get 15k according to a few sources Link to twitter with two of them
Pixle
Which is still not a GREAT amount but is much less insulting that first presented. For now there's no actual papers so it still remains "they said vs she said" situation
Meow Knight
I have no idea who to believe anymore
Pixle
haha same
Meow Knight
I read somewhere "5 k per session for 5 sessions"
Pixle
It is very possible because a few VA have come out with paltry examples, like Bryan Dechart saying he was offered 4k for a AAA job before (he turned it down)
Meow Knight
OH that's this one
Usagi
Yeah the tldr is she was offered 4k per session
Which is actually really good
But the uh. Big 'yikes' is what she demanded.
She wanted six figures and residuals apparently
Pixle
Residuals should be baked in but that's my personal opinion
Pixle
Residuals are baked in TV SHOWS and MOvies and yet Video games just get jack shit
Pixle
for most
forwardrelentlessly
The thing is there that on the one hand, she does seem to have potentially wildly misrepresented her offer and it is better than what people get. But on the other hand, what she demanded would have been honestly pretty reasonable for a lead role in any other major industry
Usagi
which...idek if most of the people workin on the game make that :X
And yeah but the point is no ones getting that, and no matter the fact that it stinks, the fact is she was making some high demands
Honestly this has been kinda smelly from the start because this would've been something decided a while ago.
Usagi
She could've brought this up...a while ago :[
Meow Knight
All I keep thinking, day in day out........ "How much is Chris Pratt getting for that Mario movie, which probably has far less lines in it?"
Meow Knight
And I know the movie industry is very different, but COME ON....
Meow Knight
COME ON.
forwardrelentlessly
So it's like, her misrepresentation (if that is the case) is extremely unhelpful for the conversation and not helping but on the other hand, it's insulting how little voice actors are offered
Pixle
Casual reminder to go encourage FREEDOM PLANET if you have not as the VAs get residuals from the work
Pixle
(It's an excellent Sonic-like game)
Pixle
Usagi : Soo that's the thing tho about the industry tho "Why aren't developers getting residuals too" YEAH WHY AREN'T THEY???
Usagi
(ooo noted)
And yeaH!! WHEEZE
Pixle
Basically the film industry had something similair to this for a long time. Rules were written in blood (like child actors money going to parents for the longest time before rules we written because parents would SQUANDER the money their kids earned)
Pixle
The Video Game industry not makes more money than the movie industry and yet has paltry paltry PLATRY money given to the staff
Usagi
but yeah the core is
- the whole industry stinks
- unfortunately because it stinks, she was still asking for something rather outlandish; because numerous other people doing just as much if not more work, would not be making that money
Usagi
- She would've known this as long as a year ago potentially- why didn't she bring it up then. When it...mighta done something for her.
Pixle
Great if you are on top of the food chain
Usagi
Her and plenty of others even
Pixle
probably NDA (which she did break) but maybe the fact that Nintendo said something PR about her not returning made her want to speak out
Usagi
I'd love for these people to earn what they deserve
...Unfortunately I can't help but feel like she wasn't tackling this with an honest mind at All...
Pixle
I mean the new VA can't speak much about it apart from a very general statement because of NDA
Pixle
But the industry stinks to high heaven it's so bad
Cookie Politics
ah yes, NDAs, which are also a lovely fucked up can of worms
Pixle
- many VAs don't even know who they are voicing during contracts until they are in the recording booth
Usagi
oh yeah
Pixle
- female employers are haraassed in pretty much every studio
Meow Knight
I spoke to Mark Ota in person a while back, and it might be that my memory's failing me, but I'm pretty sure he got more than what Hellena is claiming for The Great Ace Attorney.
Pixle
- Artists, Programmers are paid very paltry sums because they are 'easily replaceable'
MapleSpice🍁
I spoke about this on Twitter, but the fact of the matter is that...even if we never know who told the truth, 4K per session being considered high for VA work is still quite low
Usagi
and like the conditions half of these people work in is...ugh
Meow Knight
That said, this poor man works as an Uber driver full time in London because the voice acting industry doesn't pay him enough.
MapleSpice🍁
Any misrepresentation/lies on either part, it’s important to talk about how much these people are getting paid
Usagi
we're gonna have you voice this character
- we will not tell you their name. or what their mood is. or even what they're doing
- alright knock yourself out with those lines
MapleSpice🍁
When we have hacks like Chris Pratt making more than them
Usagi
'why are these voices so bad!' because the direction was literal ass-
Meow Knight
fucking Chris Pratt
Pixle
Yeah even Matt Mercer said that they basically higher the same actors over and over and don't pay the others very much
Pixle
*hire
MapleSpice🍁
The only thing I can say for certain is that I hated how Taylor tried to fuck things up for Hale
Pixle
I'm kinda glad that him and his friends have made so much money from the D&D sessions in part because of that
Pixle
Yeah it really sucks, Hale is a great person and VA
Pixle
I can see going overboard on a role that basically defined by you and someone being paid to immitate you but it doesn't mean you should go for the low hanging fruit, so to speak
MapleSpice🍁
David Hayter spoke about how he found that disrespectful.
Pixle
Yeah and David Hayter knows all about that too
Pixle
Like to the point where he hasn't played MG5 because it hurts and stings and the man LOVED Metal Gear
Pixle
but he never threw the new guy under the bus either
Pixle
the VA industry is really bad and Sterling said it best, their union us basically dog shit right now and not really fighting for proper rights
Pixle
The American Video Game VA industry in particular (not that the anime dubs are better mind you)
CatoSicaruis
Pratt is PROBABLY making 3-5 million based on his previous pay and moves he is making right now fiscally.
Pixle
Bryan's experience at being offered a paltry sum
Meow Knight
PRATT GETS HOW MUCH
Meow Knight
EXCUSE ME
Meow Knight
His voice acting isn't even good, this is so unfair
CatoSicaruis
THIS IS SPECULATION BASED ON AN OLD COLLEGE FRIEND WHO WORKS AT ILLUMINATION
CatoSicaruis
Or what he said
Pixle
It makes sense
Pixle
Honestly I would expect at least 10 million
Pixle
The movie will make easily 500m just on name alone
CatoSicaruis
10 million is the most Pratt has ever made for a single movie
Meow Knight
Oh my god I'm crying
Meow Knight
Sir, please share that with the rest of the industry.
Pixle
Nah that ain't happening
Pixle
You gotta do big movies and be a big star to get big boy movie
Meow Knight
CatoSicaruis
Josh said he's not making Steve Corell money, but he's not making bad money
CatoSicaruis
so he's not making 15-20 Mil
Meow Knight
He can do the big movie, I just think he should share that money. He doesn't even need it.
CatoSicaruis
But no one thinks Pratt's ego will let him work for less than 3 now
Usagi
oh yeah it's fucking absurd the difference between big name actors doing voice work, and like
'normal voice work'
Pixle
Sadly big names get people to the seats
Usagi
yep..........................
Meow Knight
Weird. Good script writing, visuals and a trailer that ropes me in gets me to the seats.
CatoSicaruis
Pratt hasn't gone crazy enough to drive people away, so yeah
Meow Knight
Who is out there going "Oooh, Chris Pratt, I wasn't gonna see this movie before but now I gotta"
CatoSicaruis
I admit, there are anime that I have watched ONLY because MAO did a voice in them. Different people like different things.
Usagi
its true....
CatoSicaruis
Um.... Meowzy.... Chris Pratt has a big following with MCU fanBOYS
Meow Knight
Fair, but MAO actually has talent.
Meow Knight
So the accurate reaction is actually "Oooh, Starlord, I wasn't gonna see this movie before but now I gotta" ?
CatoSicaruis
Pretty much
Meow Knight
Holy shit........
Pixle
"I know that guy!"
CatoSicaruis
Never doubt the power of "I know that guy!"
Pixle
https://images.plurk.com/jFaak34UGFB6BVvbPyhap.png
CatoSicaruis
There are also things I watched because Patric Stewart was in it. Everyone has their actors they follow.
CatoSicaruis
A LOT of MCU FANBOYS that is now RDJ, and the Chrises
Pixle
God all I can think is the 5 Chris's from the rejected skit Long Island Made
Pixle
Meow Knight
.................. I just realized I'm the world's biggest hypocrite, since I rewatched the shitty Star Wars sequels for Oscar Isaac.
Meow Knight
Meow Knight
I'm part of the problem
CatoSicaruis
If all you watch are popcorn adventure movies, and that is the extent of your ambition. Say you are a 30 something old white male.... Chris Pratt is awesome, because he understands comedic timing. He's not the best at it, but he at least understands it. SO he can be badass AND funny.
CatoSicaruis
Now if you have seen more movies than just popcorn movies, there are a dozen better actors for that out there. But if you never watch those movies....
Pixle
https://images.plurk.com/4X2wORikF0jO3QcvHsy9cU.png
Pixle
so many Chrises
CatoSicaruis
I 5 SEMESTERS of Film analysis for criticism. I could go on and on, but it boils down to, he's a big name because the people who watch him and love him don't see a lot of thinky movies
𝙟𝙖𝙘𝙠𝙙𝙖𝙬
yes to all of these, and the point is, yeah some of what she's said is fishy but the major point of the conversation this whole mess has raised is that VAs are not paid enough
Usagi
YEAH
𝙟𝙖𝙘𝙠𝙙𝙖𝙬
4k per session sounds reasonable, but like, the low end of reasonable
Usagi
pay the VAs more, vg industry >:[
(pay a lot of them more actually)
Pixle
At least offer residuals
Pixle
VAs don't get paid if they do remasters
𝙟𝙖𝙘𝙠𝙙𝙖𝙬
yeah at LEAST offer residuals!!!
Usagi
yeah I really haven't understood why that one's so hard
Pixle
TV show actors get residuals for reruns it's ridiculous
𝙟𝙖𝙘𝙠𝙙𝙖𝙬
book authors get residuals!!
Usagi
hearing 'i want six figures for x time' is a bar, but come on, residuals isn't asking much at all!!!
The Slickest
One thing to remember is that most video game companies have a different structure, and are broadly more internationally based
𝙟𝙖𝙘𝙠𝙙𝙖𝙬
residuals should be basic
The Slickest
Hollywood is US centered
Usagi
hrmmmmmmm...
proтoвadger
residuals should be standard for anyone in the game development honestly
proтoвadger
I'm just thinking of how many systems bayo was released on, and how it was ported over to the switch, and like
𝙟𝙖𝙘𝙠𝙙𝙖𝙬
honestly between this and the MP100 thing and the Mario movie bullshit it's like. pls. VAs need to live too
proтoвadger
the people who did work on that game originally should get more money for that port
𝙟𝙖𝙘𝙠𝙙𝙖𝙬
voice acting for video games so far as I can tell is ROUGH bc not only do you have to do the voice lines you also have to make other sounds
𝙟𝙖𝙘𝙠𝙙𝙖𝙬
and death sounds
𝙟𝙖𝙘𝙠𝙙𝙖𝙬
and sounds like you're getting tired
𝙟𝙖𝙘𝙠𝙙𝙖𝙬
video game developers in general should be paid more
𝙟𝙖𝙘𝙠𝙙𝙖𝙬
the Bayo drama itself I've got no real comment for bc that looks Messy and I'm not touching it
𝙟𝙖𝙘𝙠𝙙𝙖𝙬
but the larger conversation it raised around the fact that people in the video games industry aren't being paid fair wages for their work is a worthy conversation to have
The Slickest
Though, under SAG-AFTRA the base rate for a VA in video games is $478 per hour. So $4000 for 4 hours is twice the union minimum.
Pixle
I think base rate is like for new members tho like just maybe 1 or 2 voice gigs
𝖘𝖎𝖑𝖛𝖊𝖗 𝖘𝖕𝖎𝖉𝖊𝖗
I think the most shocking truth about this entire saga is that residuals aren’t commonplace for game developers or voice actors. I always assumed both would get residuals from game remakes and the likes but they aren’t. That within itself is criminal.
𝖘𝖎𝖑𝖛𝖊𝖗 𝖘𝖕𝖎𝖉𝖊𝖗
So even though these creatives worked on these games, they don’t get any extra income for all their hard work.
𝖘𝖎𝖑𝖛𝖊𝖗 𝖘𝖕𝖎𝖉𝖊𝖗
This feels inherently wrong to me
Voidkat
yeah and it's worth noting hellena is also like... a fascist supporter so it begs the question if platinum didn't want her off the team because of that
𝖘𝖎𝖑𝖛𝖊𝖗 𝖘𝖕𝖎𝖉𝖊𝖗
I personally don’t believe there’s a correlation between Hellena’s personal beliefs and her current issue with Platinum Games/Nintendo.
𝖘𝖎𝖑𝖛𝖊𝖗 𝖘𝖕𝖎𝖉𝖊𝖗
I believe they weren’t ever going to pay Hellena any residuals and this angered her.
𝖘𝖎𝖑𝖛𝖊𝖗 𝖘𝖕𝖎𝖉𝖊𝖗
Justly so. I think what happened here is that the company wanted an excuse to get rid of her after she demanded more. While I doubt anyone would want to hire Hellena after finding her political leanings in the West, I think Hellena may have ended her career by appealing to Twitter and going against her NDA
𝖘𝖎𝖑𝖛𝖊𝖗 𝖘𝖕𝖎𝖉𝖊𝖗
However, her political leanings most likely didn’t cause the schism we see now between her and Platinum.
proтoвadger
I mean I'm pretty sure that no matter what her beliefs are it would have been highly illegal for them to fire her or try and remove her from the team based on them
𝖘𝖎𝖑𝖛𝖊𝖗 𝖘𝖕𝖎𝖉𝖊𝖗
Especially since Hellena would’ve signed a contract with them prior. To just take her off the project because of personal beliefs would’ve been a huge violation
The Slickest
Was she under contract with them, though?
𝖘𝖎𝖑𝖛𝖊𝖗 𝖘𝖕𝖎𝖉𝖊𝖗
I would suspect it but I don’t have any idea if she was.
𝖘𝖎𝖑𝖛𝖊𝖗 𝖘𝖕𝖎𝖉𝖊𝖗
I don’t see how anyone could go into a project of this magnitude without a contract but then again, people get desperate and make deals
The Slickest
Because, at least from my reading, both side seem to treat it as if she's an independent hire and not part of the team.
The Slickest
But, idk
𝖘𝖎𝖑𝖛𝖊𝖗 𝖘𝖕𝖎𝖉𝖊𝖗
Hellena probably was a contractor/independent hire but she is also apart of the same union as Jennifer Hale, her replacement
𝖘𝖎𝖑𝖛𝖊𝖗 𝖘𝖕𝖎𝖉𝖊𝖗
There’s a ton of gray areas here in this issue but what everyone fundamentally knows is that voice actors aren’t paid well for their works.
𝖘𝖎𝖑𝖛𝖊𝖗 𝖘𝖕𝖎𝖉𝖊𝖗
Regarding Hellena’s appeal to fascism, I don’t get why she’s pro-Trump when he literally didn’t do anything beneficial for America but that’s a whole different conversation
𝖘𝖎𝖑𝖛𝖊𝖗 𝖘𝖕𝖎𝖉𝖊𝖗
I personally can’t look at her the same knowing that about her. I would rather have Jennifer Hale take over the role of Bayonetta from here on out.
Pixle
Yeah my biggest worry about all of this is people will sweep this under the rug because the person who spoke about it is toxic (I too, do not like her in light of what is bringing brought forward) but then you get some gamer dudes going "I trust a company word's more than a voice actor" and that's part of the problem
The Slickest
That, and there's also going to be a general lack of sympathy for someone being offered $1000 an hour and screaming that they're underpaid, irrespective of how true it may or may not be.
𝖘𝖎𝖑𝖛𝖊𝖗 𝖘𝖕𝖎𝖉𝖊𝖗
I believe Hellena Taylor was low-balled regardless. Whether it was $4000 every session or just a flat price of $4000, she was definitely being low-balled by Platinum
MapleSpice🍁
This is what I worry for
𝖘𝖎𝖑𝖛𝖊𝖗 𝖘𝖕𝖎𝖉𝖊𝖗
If $100,000 with no residuals is deemed low by the industry for someone playing the MC from Grand Theft Auto, then this was just criminal
𝖘𝖎𝖑𝖛𝖊𝖗 𝖘𝖕𝖎𝖉𝖊𝖗
This was cited in YongYea's newest video on this subject manner and he works as voice actor in the industry
𝕁υѕт мєℓσ∂ιє
You can't compare GTA and Bayonetta.
𝕁υѕт мєℓσ∂ιє
People have been acting like Bayo is this killer franchise, but it's not.
𝕁υѕт мєℓσ∂ιє
It's doing worse than Xenoblade in sales.
𝕁υѕт мєℓσ∂ιє
Heck, the reason Bayo 2&3 are Nintendo exclusive is because no one else would do it. It's not selling nearly enough for the VA of the main character to demand six figures.
★ тяу-нαя∂уи
whether taylor was being fully honest or not, i'm coming down on 'you can have a correct and fair point and still be a real shithead about it'
★ тяу-нαя∂уи
it'll be a cold day in hell when i believe a corporation over a worker, to be 100% clear, but the messier this gets the worse it looks across the board
𝖘𝖎𝖑𝖛𝖊𝖗 𝖘𝖕𝖎𝖉𝖊𝖗
★ тяу-нαя∂уи : Agreed, I’m not inclined to believe a multi-million dollar corporation that criminally underpaids their workers but this entire mess is very messy
★ тяу-нαя∂уи
and if she is incorrect/misleading/what have you it's gonna hurt the legitimate point at the core of it which is VAs are criminally underpaid consistently
★ тяу-нαя∂уи
Shit's Fucked
Pixle
And like I do get people going "but what about the others" and my point is "yeah exactly. Please get more unions because the Video Game Industry in all its entirely is Mostly Fucked.
★ тяу-нαя∂уи
Literally Pay Everybody I Don't Care How Much Of An Asshole They Are
★ тяу-нαя∂уи
(i care immensely but that's fully beside the actual point)
𝖘𝖎𝖑𝖛𝖊𝖗 𝖘𝖕𝖎𝖉𝖊𝖗
The video game industry makes more money than the entire film industry but still criminally underpays all of their creatives
𝖘𝖎𝖑𝖛𝖊𝖗 𝖘𝖕𝖎𝖉𝖊𝖗
Make it make sense
𝙟𝙖𝙘𝙠𝙙𝙖𝙬
yeah she sounds like an ass and I'd be glad if Jennifer Hale takes over from here on out but at the same time even assholes deserve to get paid fairly yanno
★ тяу-нαя∂уи
exactly
𝙟𝙖𝙘𝙠𝙙𝙖𝙬
like. even just residuals!
Pixle
Like seeing how she acts, I can see if Platinum/Nintendo wanted to get rid of her (And they have every right to do so) due to her comments, and if she lied it sucks, but I am glad there is a discourse happening right now because it just keeps happening
Pixle
I mean how many years has it been since EA spouse?
Pixle
2004 !! IT was posted on Livejournal!
Pixle
Crunch is still a thing and it is still Just As Bad
𝙟𝙖𝙘𝙠𝙙𝙖𝙬
it's like. if you DON'T pay the assholes who can't stop mouthing off on Twitter what they're owed then you start to think you don't have to pay the rest what they're owed
𝙟𝙖𝙘𝙠𝙙𝙖𝙬
bc they're in a union or bc they're asking for a raise or bc they need paid leave
The Slickest
Again, Platinum and Nintendo are Japanese companies, not US based, so I'm not sure how much leverage a union can have on them.
The Slickest
Then you have European based studios. Canadian ones. So, again, a lot of different laws, labor laws, and contracts and customs all over the place.
𝖘𝖎𝖑𝖛𝖊𝖗 𝖘𝖕𝖎𝖉𝖊𝖗
^ This. We're forgetting how vastly different labor laws can be from region from region. However, I will mention that even Japan's labor laws are deemed as archaic in Japan
𝖘𝖎𝖑𝖛𝖊𝖗 𝖘𝖕𝖎𝖉𝖊𝖗
Hell, even the labor laws in the United States aren't perfect and typically benefit the employers and not employees
𝖘𝖎𝖑𝖛𝖊𝖗 𝖘𝖕𝖎𝖉𝖊𝖗
Overall, I feel like there's a lot that we don't know because we aren't in this industry to make a sound judgment on anything happening here.
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