Snake-Kun
Thinking about....Gurren Lagann....
Snake-Kun
Rewind back to the mid 2000s
Snake-Kun
The big shit in mecha anime
Snake-Kun
is shows like RahXephon, Fafner in the Azure, and Bokurano
Snake-Kun
Which are generally kind of going in a lot on themes of
Snake-Kun
"Violence is horrifying and traumatic"
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"Putting a heroic teen in a giant robot and making him fight would result in all kinds of PTSD and mental breakdown because that's too much stress for one kid to bear"
Snake-Kun
"Nihilism, actually"
boo(f)
the era of shows that were influenced, in some way or another, by Neon Genesis Evangelion
Snake-Kun
Sidebar: This may or may not be what those shows were REALLY about? I haven't watched them in a million years
Snake-Kun
But that was very much the attitude of the era
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Giant Robots Suck And Not Liking Them Is Cool
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Heroism Is A Fake Idea
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So yes, the descendants of Evangelion
Snake-Kun
And then the same fucking studio that gave us Evangelion
Snake-Kun
made Gurren Lagann
Snake-Kun
Which was a show about heroism in the face of overwhelming odds
Snake-Kun
It was brightly colored! It was kinda goofy!
AzureChrysanthemum
I liken it to the Dark Magical Girl trend that followed Madoka
Snake-Kun
Our heroes got beat up and struggled but they always pulled their shit together and pushed forwards despite their wounds and their losses
Snake-Kun
And they SAVED THE DAY
boo(f)
magical girl and mecha have always been closely related genres so I would say that's actually pretty accurate
Snake-Kun
And it FUCKING RULED
AzureChrysanthemum
In that there were just a lot of people who wanted to make money off the style but not necessarily the substance
AzureChrysanthemum
Like, Evangelion is ultimately just about depression
Snake-Kun
And also it brought balance back to the genre
AzureChrysanthemum
Rah'Xephon was more like. About pretention
AzureChrysanthemum
"Let's do Eva but WAY more snooty"
Snake-Kun
god
Snake-Kun
yeah
Snake-Kun
RahXephon wasn't even BAD
Snake-Kun
It had some good shit in it
Can we talk? ﾐ☆
I just remember the fight with the Mu who was actually the girl all along
AzureChrysanthemum
That was probably the most compelling part of RahXephon
AzureChrysanthemum
Bokurano I think... the writer just like
AzureChrysanthemum
Does that stuff
AzureChrysanthemum
Contrast to Madoka where Urobuchi is like
AzureChrysanthemum
"I'm gonna ape magical girl aesthetic for a bunch of cute girl protags and then I'm gonna make them SUFFER"
Snake-Kun
Urobuchi has one fucking story
Snake-Kun
and that is "A protagonist tries to be a hero and is punished for it because heroism is awful"
AzureChrysanthemum
And then the rest of the industry is like "fantastic male otaku love cute girls suffering let's lean into that"
boo(f)
so here's a thing that fucks me up about the timeline of mecha anime
boo(f)
that is relevant due to like
boo(f)
our groupwatches
AzureChrysanthemum
And then, as has happened so many times, a bunch of men stuck their dicks into a genre that was intended for girls and ruined it
boo(f)
i always forget that eureka seven actually predates gurren lagann by like 3 years
Snake-Kun
but this isn't a plurk about magical girls
AzureChrysanthemum
Yeah
AzureChrysanthemum
But it IS drawing to my greater point
Snake-Kun
Is it that men suck?
AzureChrysanthemum
That Mecha, having been ostensibly for men
AzureChrysanthemum
Didn't actually necessarily suffer as much as a genre the way Magical Girl did
AzureChrysanthemum
Because you do still have more heroic action stuff being made
AzureChrysanthemum
Which continued until the Isekai plague which sadly wiped out most other Anime genres
AzureChrysanthemum
(But also yes that men suck)
Snake-Kun
Great
Snake-Kun
this is a plurk about how Gurren Lagann injected sincere heroism into a genre that was getting dangerously cynical
moontouched
i would argue that mecha yeah did get really into a downswing
moontouched
and then gurren lagann was like
moontouched
FUCK IT
AzureChrysanthemum
But yeah like, GaoGaiGar TV was late 90's iirc
AzureChrysanthemum
Diebuster predated Gurren Lagann
Snake-Kun
wait really GGG is as old as that?
Snake-Kun
I thought it was a contemporary to TTGL
boo(f)
TTGL's contemporary is
boo(f)
of all things
boo(f)
Code Geass
AzureChrysanthemum
GGG is 2 years after Eva
Snake-Kun
huh
Snake-Kun
I WAS going to bring up GGG, actually
AzureChrysanthemum
And is part of a broader Braves series of a bunch of generally upbeat mecha series
Snake-Kun
but in the context of like
AzureChrysanthemum
Generally in the post-Eva world
AzureChrysanthemum
That were still pretty upbeat, positive and heroic
Snake-Kun
The message of TTGL is "Being a cool hero isn't passe"
AzureChrysanthemum
(The rest of them outside of GGG were just shit is the problem)
Snake-Kun
"Unlike what Evangelion told us"
Snake-Kun
The message of GGG is
Snake-Kun
"Selling toys is awesome!"
Snake-Kun
"Unlike what Evangelion told us"
AzureChrysanthemum
Just to confirm was that last statement intended to be ironic?
AzureChrysanthemum
Evangelion is one of the biggest merch franchises in existence
moontouched
i mean i can certainly believe evangelion was not intended to sell toys
moontouched
at first
AzureChrysanthemum
Oh, yeah, no not at all
moontouched
just because it's become a money-making machine now doesn't mean that's what it was then
moontouched
so its like
AzureChrysanthemum
OK I wasn't entirely clear on the intent
moontouched
perhaps we get more insight from looking at things at the time they were made
moontouched
which is essentially what this plurk is about
moontouched
what gurren lagann represented, to the mecha genre
Snake-Kun
What Ruka said
moontouched
at the time it was made
Snake-Kun
Evangelion BECAME a huge franchise but that's not what it was intended to be
AzureChrysanthemum
My contention is just that Gurren Lagann came 12 years after Evangelion
Snake-Kun
GGG was ABSOLUTELY itnended to become a franchise to sell toys
AzureChrysanthemum
But there were still a number of more positive and upbeat mecha series that released in the intervening time period
moontouched
i think there's something to be said about "yeah these still existed but none of them caught on"
moontouched
like what was actually being made vs what existed in public consciousness
AzureChrysanthemum
I do think we should append "in the west" onto that
moontouched
i mean yeah that's implied isn't it?
AzureChrysanthemum
Because as a genre it was still pretty strong and varied in Japan, enormous cultural touchstone that Eva was
Snake-Kun
Obviously I'm talking about In the west
moontouched
because like, we're all speaking from a western perspective here
Snake-Kun
I don't know what was going on in Japan in 2008
moontouched
mecha franchise in japan is a completely different beast
AzureChrysanthemum
OK yeah
AzureChrysanthemum
I thought you were talking like, of the genre as it existed and was being produced and all that as a whole
Snake-Kun
I'm talking about my own subjective experience with anime, mainly
moontouched
yeah, exactly
AzureChrysanthemum
OK
moontouched
it's not meant to be a factual plurk on the history of all mecha
Snake-Kun
You could no doubt write a scholarly paper about how I am completely wrong
Snake-Kun
This was how I felt about Gurren Lagann when it came out
AzureChrysanthemum
Sorry I got super confused because I DO have some familiarity with how the genre went
AzureChrysanthemum
So I was approaching this conversation from a completely different direction
AzureChrysanthemum
You are valid and I apologize carry on
Snake-Kun
I basically made my point
moontouched
i do honestly feel like you approached this from a completely diff angle and you didn't stop to consider the feelings and perspective of the person who made this plurk and that's like....you probably know more than I do about it and that's cool but it still wasn't great of you to like, stomp over eric's entirely subjective plurk about his feelings yknow
Snake-Kun
She apologized
Snake-Kun
it's fine
moontouched
as long as you're ok! :[ this is your plurk afterall
Snake-Kun
Anyway
Snake-Kun
Code Geass was brought up as Gurren Lagann's contemporary and you know what
Snake-Kun
that show was ALSO a lot of fun
boo(f)
the Code Geass rewatch really did stun me with regards to like
boo(f)
both How Much Smarter than I remembered it being
boo(f)
and also
boo(f)
How Much Dumber than I remembered it being
moontouched
the husky of mecha anime: just smart enough to develop some completely bugfuck weird shit
boo(f)
which i think is in a lot of ways something you could say about Gurren Lagann
boo(f)
YEAH
Snake-Kun
Code Geass knew exactly what it was doing
Snake-Kun
Except for the Euphie thing
boo(f)
Code Geass knew what it was doing but it didn't always really know why it was doing
boo(f)
and you know what
boo(f)
mood