can we talk about how these villain redemption people don't understand that vader, their pinnacle for redemption arcs, was only ever redeemed in the eyes of luke, or are they not ready for that disc horse?
I'll give them one point with kylo staying the villain: him turning good at the last like 30 minutes of the movie was such a waste of the earlier screentime
the last scene was of him staring forlornly in the distance, on his knees in the dirt. he lost. to have everything fall apart in that year between movies would've made sense
hux IS competent. he had a loss of confidence in tlj after losing his giant planet destroyer but we know he's clever and conniving and yes kylo can read minds but you're telling me he cant find some way to get past that minor problem? bring the knights of ren into it if you got to
the reasons i fully believed kylo was gonna have a redemption arc: 1. he's the son of two legacy characters 2. leia said she wanted him back and it would've bookended her losing all hope in the second movie 3. "I feel it again, the pull to the light" "I want to be free of this pain." - obvious confliction??
4. giant massive adam driver hugging tiny carrie fisher. hello???? 5. hilarity ensues in the resistance, the banter between him and poe alone would've been gr8 - shenanigans as nobody really trusts him and he has to kind of work to earn it
TROS really dropped the ball. I'll always appreciate that they at least gave us the kiss, but come on y'all. Dying isn't redemption! I would have preferred even an ambiguous grey ending for him where he's not full Dark Side but not coming back to the Resistance either.
Half the reasons I love Octavia Blake from The 100 is she basically gets a horrifyingly slow, painful, wrong & right steps, justified arc back from being a villain. WE NEED THOSE STORIES. They never happen. People need to stop saying that they happen so often
Generator Rex has... non-villain redemption arcs. As in asshole good guys learn how not to be assholes. There's... almost a redemption arc? But said young woman is never actually evil, just in a bad position.
Honestly, well-written character arcs and character growth is my catnip and you're right. We don't see enough of that in all of our media all of the time even.
Not outside of HERE IS OUR ONE CHARACTER WE CARE ABOUT in most franchises. And just. Thanks no thanks. I want worlds of real people, all on different personal journeys at once. Like real life.
I see She-Ra was already mentioned... and I have to mention Ultraman Orb too. But really that's about all I can think of where a villain gets redeemed and stays alive?
I think what the people who are yelling this are saying is that they don't want villains to show any shred of humanity/relatability... because that just makes things too confusing I guess. Not, you know, more interesting and realistic.
Like there are probably fantastic odds you could look at the timeline of anyone with those kinds of complaints and find plenty of similar cases of them ranting about how the protag shouldn't have forgiven their villain (or otherwise spared their life) in several other fandoms
2. leia said she wanted him back and it would've bookended her losing all hope in the second movie
3. "I feel it again, the pull to the light" "I want to be free of this pain." - obvious confliction??
5. hilarity ensues in the resistance, the banter between him and poe alone would've been gr8 - shenanigans as nobody really trusts him and he has to kind of work to earn it
But... yes. Kylo Ren absolutely did not have a redemption arc
And yeah these people don't understand what a redemption arc actually is, I think they're just mad the hero didn't kill them.