annakratos
Finance friends, I need help with retirement planning. Do I want a pre-tax or a Roth post-tax 401k?
Catgirl Crimes
I stan Roths because I don’t need to worry about the taxes as much
annakratos
so I thought Roth, but then Im thinking that I'm def going to go up a couple of tax brackets before I retire, and then I think traditional is supposed to be better or something idk I dont know how any of this works
Catgirl Crimes
I should elaborate - I think that the trend for taxes is just going up so I’d rather pay while it’s still low IMO - also just paying taxes ahead of time I think sets future kits up for not worrying about the taxable rate
annakratos
I feel like theres a con to it though, but I dont really know what I'm reading
annakratos
I Am Immortal Water Friend Faetan you're my accountanty/finance people I think help please
Water Friend
So, the core question is, do you think your income now is higher than the income you will need in retirement?
Water Friend
That is in retirement, not your last employed income before you retire
Water Friend
bearing in mind that social security (if we even have it anymore by the time you retire) is only partially taxable
I Am Immortal
Water Friend is who’d I ask here.
Water Friend
Roth contributions are taxed now, and as long as you leave them in for 5 years are 100% nontaxable when distributed. It means you never pay taxes on the account earnings and pay whatever your tax bracket is on what you put in.
Water Friend
Traditional IRA contributions are tax-deferred meaning whatever you put in the IRA is subtracted from your income, but whatever you take out in retirement is added to your income for tax purposes in the year you take it out
Water Friend
If you aren't worried about your tax rate right now I would say open a Roth
Water Friend
If you have enough disposable income to put away a significant amount, ultimately I would say open both.
Water Friend
Shave some off your taxable income now and have a mix of taxable and non-taxable income in retirement
Water Friend
but that only makes sense based on what you can afford to contribute annually
pantherdragon
yeah I really agree with the above
pantherdragon
it's better to be taxed now when you're making some amount of money
pantherdragon
it's easier to plan when you know the chunk you see in the retirement savings is what you'll have to work with
pantherdragon
and the government won't tax it
Water Friend
If you're looking at 401ks specifically, bear in mind that you are gonna have to be vigilant with rolling it over
Water Friend
dammit plurk
Water Friend
anyway, the point is
Water Friend
Roth 401ks are rarer than Roth IRAs
Water Friend
so, you will have to be vigilant any time you're moving it around to make sure the funds stay tagged as post-tax Roth funds
Water Friend
and not pre-tax
Water Friend
otherwise you will have a fuck of a headache straightening it all out down the line
Water Friend
also, PSA, roll over your 401ks people
Water Friend
when you leave your job the 401k gets locked and management options vanish so you can get fucked by a changing market
Faetan
I'm not much help on this one! I just know as long as you're contributing to something, it'll go well for you.
annakratos
Water Friend : wait how do I roll over a 401k Ive had 2 in the past and didnt know I had to do anything with them
annakratos
okay, so like, heres a question. let's say Im putting away 3%. so pre-tax it would be 3% of my income before taxes. Roth would be 3% after taxes, so wouldnt Roth be saving me less?
Dancin` Vic
Yes, but the pre-tax will have taxes taken on it when you withdraw it during retirement
annakratos
but it grows faster then
Water Friend
Call your new/current 401k servicer or IRA custodian and tell them you want to do a rollover and get their firm-specific instructions. They will either collect information and authorization to contact the old 401k servicer on your behalf, or give you instructions for how to do so
Water Friend
you can only do one rollover per 12 months though
Water Friend
also, if you ever take a loan from your 401k, do not roll it into anything but another 401k until you've paid it back
Water Friend
Personally, I prefer to move old 401ks into an IRA, since IRAs are significantly more portable
annakratos
oh gosh, I dont even know who I used when I was at Best
Water Friend
Employers generally have one servicer, so you should be able to call their HR and ask if you don't have any documents for it
annakratos
is it a problem in the future if I get a roth and then join a company where they only match traditional?
Water Friend
Well, in that case you'd want to take advantage of the match and keep a traditional at that company, but nah, I wouldn't think it would cause you problems
Water Friend
Like, maybe don't roll your existing Roth funds into the new 401k if you don't wanna deal with keeping Roth and trad balances in the same account, but that's about it
Faetan
From our company's plan summary:
If you elect to make Pre-Tax 401(K) deferrals, then your taxable income is reduced by the deferral contributions so you pay less in federal income taxes. Later, when the Plan distributes the deferrals and earnings, you will pay the taxes on those deferrals and the earnings.
Faetan
Therefore, with a Pre-Tax 401(K) deferral, federal income taxes on the deferral contributions and on the earnings are only postponed. Eventually, you will have to pay taxes on these amounts.
Faetan
I love that k in parentheses turns into a kissy lip.
Faetan
Roth 401(K) deferrals. If you elect to make Roth 401(K) deferrals, the deferrals are subject to federal income taxes in the year of
deferral. However, the deferrals and, in most cases, the earnings on the deferrals are not subject to federal income taxes when
distributed to you. In order for the earnings to be tax free, you must meet certain conditions.
Faetan
Because a Roth account isn't taxed on its earnings during a qualified distribution (if you're over 59 1/2), I think it might be the better option so long as you only plan to withdraw amounts when you retire.
Water Friend
Long story short, based on "I'm thinking that I'm def going to go up a couple tax brackets before I retire," I would say go for the Roth now and if your income goes up, consider swapping over to traditional
Water Friend
It doesn't make sense to pay taxes now if your tax rate will be higher than when you retire, and also, Roth eligibility phases out over a certain income level
annakratos
oh shit, what's the income threshold for Roth??
annakratos
my next job or promotion will put me into the next tax bracket, and then it won't be long before i jump up again in this industry
Water Friend
pardon me, I was wrong about that
Water Friend
Roth IRA has a phaseout starting at $125k annually
Water Friend
Roth 401k doesn't
annakratos
(i was at telling my brother in law how i didn't expect to make what I'm making when I started looking for jobs and that i thought it would be another 10 years before i got to 100k before i saw what my low level position pays and he was like 'lol in 10 years you'll be making a quarter million' soooo)
annakratos
gotcha, sounds like Roth is the better one for now then, yayyy
Water Friend
Yep, I'd say so
annakratos
thank you for the help!
Water Friend
np!
annakratos
i don't know finance lmao we don't handle that side of things in my line
Water Friend
I would say, it's also worth it to look into opening up an IRA
Water Friend
401ks are great for systemic contributions and employer matching, and then you can put windfalls in an IRA
Water Friend
or if you have the overall available funds to max out your retirement saving, which... if you can, do it
annakratos
i know nothing about IRAs!
Water Friend
Basically, it's a 401k but not through your employer, and the rules are slightly different
Water Friend
Also retirement savings, also comes in Roth and traditional flavors, lower contribution limit annually but more flexible about when and how you can take money out, and easier to move around if you need to change custodial institution
annakratos
ohhhhh maybe my next job. my plan right now is too start saving up and slamming down my student loans
Water Friend
Good plan
Water Friend
Like, retirement saving is important to do early, but also, student loans suck
Water Friend
My old 401k (now an IRA) from my old job is still bigger than my 401k at my new job, even though I'm now making twice what I did there, with a better match and contributing more
Water Friend
just because the old one is older and has had more time to grow
annakratos
that's fair
annakratos
once I'm at or around 100k I'll be slamming into my 401k. I might adjust it in a few months once I see it what I'm actually left with after bills and living expenses at this new level of pay
annakratos
i got my first paycheck and it was NICE but it also didn't have benefits in it yet since those don't kick in until next month
Water Friend
Good plan
Water Friend
The one thing with retirement contributions is once they go in, it's annoying to get them out again
Water Friend
So you don't wanna put too much in and then be hosed
Water Friend
(Another reason IRAs are good; you can do a "whoops shit I didn't meant to put that there" reversal on contribution if you need to)
annakratos
oh that is nice. my goal is to not need to dip but good in case of an emergency
Water Friend
Yeah, it's good to have
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