Neuroscientist Explains Why These Rats Drive Tiny Ca...
serpentcyborg
[Science] [Rats]
serpentcyborg
This is the information we needed
Bugly42
Seriously good science
Hyatt
ratties love their new zoomie toy that takes them to food?
Bugly42
Apparently the food isn't necessary to make the toy fun.
arwingyoshi
Look at the little ones having fun
Bugly42
This reminds me of a Temple Grandin story where they taught pigs to play video games and didn't realize the treat dispenser was broken for reaching the goal because the pigs were still lining up to play.
arwingyoshi
pigs and rats are such smart animals
Bugly42
They went through the records and it had been like two weeks since the dispenser had functioned as intended.
Bugly42
It doesn't surprise me that rats enjoyed it. Wheels and balls are good rodent toys, after all.
Bugly42
This just takes out the running until you crash bit.
serpentcyborg
And they get to go zoom!
serpentcyborg
But yeah, I like how with this they keep going in it even days after they stopped getting treats
Hyatt
it's a very unique toy, they probably think it's a special treat to be able to play with it
Bugly42
Although apparently rats in poorly enriched environments don't drive well.
Hyatt
poor ratties. what they considered "rat Disneyland" looked like standard pet rat cages to me
Bugly42
Right. But compared to the bare lab cages most research animals get, those were pretty good.
Hyatt
it just hurts that what pet owners would consider standard are considered luxuries in lab settings. which means that the basic lab cages must be terribly boring
Bugly42
It's one of the reasons why people complain so much about animal research. The barren lives we wouldn't give our pets or fellow human beings.
Bugly42
But there are a lot of people who think a good cage is shavings and maybe a wheel.
serpentcyborg
Yeah, that makes me sad, too. And the thing is, rats are small animals. It's not like you'd have to take up a ton of space to give them much nicer cages
serpentcyborg
Like look at double critter nations
serpentcyborg
Those have plenty of space, they're stackable
serpentcyborg
toss in a dig box, some hides and tissues
serpentcyborg
and wooden chews
Bugly42
I think how well people enrich the lives of their animals is tied to how much personality and interaction they expect from them.
Bugly42
Like people who declare their dog is "untrainable."
serpentcyborg
Yeah
serpentcyborg
I think the real reason a lot of small dogs are badly behaved is because people don't bother to teach them how they should behave
serpentcyborg
And then they go 'oh, it's a little yap yap dog, what do you expect'
Bugly42
I was watching a story about a rescue they named Rascal, and I could tell just from the tone they used to chide him that the dog was never going to behave for these people.
serpentcyborg
Where I've been able to train rats to do all sorts of things
Bugly42
If you're pretending to be upset instead of actually being disapproving, you better believe your pet will know the difference.
serpentcyborg
But that's because they learn I make fun things happen, so they pay attention when I make noises at them and try to figure out how to make me give them the treat
serpentcyborg
Oh, definitely
serpentcyborg
I can tell with the rats
serpentcyborg
Like when I had the christmas tree up and Justin sniffed the wire, I said 'no' in a tone that made him back off and leave it alone after that
Bugly42
And if you engage enough, they'll invent games for you to play.
serpentcyborg
But when Justin tried to go down the back of my pants, he reacted like it was all a fun game, because I was laughing when I said 'no'
serpentcyborg
But then, I don't really mind because when I really mean it I'm able to convey that
Bugly42
And with things like trying to burrow in weird spots on your clothes, how much are you really going to be able to stop?
serpentcyborg
Right
Bugly42
They're going to decide that being on the inside of a tucked in shirt is a nice place to nap.
serpentcyborg
And it's really cute
serpentcyborg
Until they chew their way out
serpentcyborg
"...I forgot which way I came in"
Bugly42
Right.
Bugly42
Well, chewing their way out of an enclosed space is a natural reaction, too.
Hyatt
they ratties. chewing through their playthings is their job
Bugly42
Which is why you don't let them nap in your good shirt.
serpentcyborg
Exactly
serpentcyborg
I have some old clothes I usually wear that already have holes
Bugly42
But if they want to cuddle, that's just being friendly little ratties.
serpentcyborg
so it's usually more of a funny thing
serpentcyborg
Yep!
serpentcyborg
And honestly, I knew the holes were going to happen
Hyatt
do they prefer squeezing through the existing holes or making new ones?
serpentcyborg
New ones are better
Bugly42
I knew someone who had a pygmy hamster who liked her bra for naps. Very expensive little fuzzball.
serpentcyborg
But I have specific rat outfits that have rat holes
Hyatt
damn. does that mean we should donate our old bras to rodent owners?
Bugly42
I think it was that the hammy could burrow in there and stay warm and be close to heartbeats and all those nice things.
serpentcyborg
Thankfully I've never had a bra lover
Bugly42
I would never even consider it with any but the smallest fuzzies.
serpentcyborg
But that could be because my rat shirt has one of those nice stomach pocket things
serpentcyborg
Yeah, and with rats, they're pretty big boys
serpentcyborg
Nicodemus is almost as long as my shin bone
serpentcyborg
In part because I have really short legs, but still
Bugly42
I mean, if the pocket is big enough to be comfortable, you could find a rodent hanging out in there.
Bugly42
And if there's a human being wearing it that they like, that makes it a better place to hang.
serpentcyborg
Yep
serpentcyborg
Company, warm and snuggly enclosed place?
Bugly42
And the possibility of treats appearing.
serpentcyborg
And I do tend to bring treats
Bugly42
I'm a little surprised they went with a frosted cereal when cheerios are just as high-value to most ratties.
serpentcyborg
Yeah, I always go with cheerios, myself
serpentcyborg
Or with the regular oxbow kibble
serpentcyborg
Because Nicodemus is so indiscriminate he literally does not care
serpentcyborg
You can even pick up a piece of food from his bowl and offer it to him, he really just likes the fact that you're giving it to him
Bugly42
There is no real reason to give rats processed sugar.
serpentcyborg
Yeah, I never do
Bugly42
Especially the lab strains that have such a problem with lipomas and other growths just happening.
serpentcyborg
And honestly, even the non lab strains get a crazy high rate of tumors
serpentcyborg
I think the rate is something like 50% in a normal population of rats?
serpentcyborg
But I don't keep anything with processed sugar in the house
Bugly42
Something huge. Especially mammary tumors.
serpentcyborg
(Honestly, that's why I want to get a dog next, I love rats, but that part is too hard)
serpentcyborg
But if I ever do get a new batch of rats, I think I'll try to find an engineer and ask them how much money they'd want for a car a rat can drive
Bugly42
It's a pretty easy build, because they just put induction circuits in the direction the vehicle would go when the rat had their paws on that wall.
serpentcyborg
Yeah
Bugly42
So it basically went in the direction the rat was facing.
serpentcyborg
Yeah, I saw that
Bugly42
pretty smart build if the rats are used to interacting with their environment.
serpentcyborg
Right, and so any future rats I'd have would probably figure it out quickly, since I tend to give any rats I have lots of free range time and stuff to play with
Bugly42
I think that might have been part of the problem with the bare-cage colony rats. If your only interaction is your cagemates and not toys, toys don't make sense.
serpentcyborg
Right, like those dogs from puppy mills that don't know how to play
Bugly42
Like the first time an animal sees a jingle ball can be pretty funny in how they react.
serpentcyborg
Hermes absolutely loved jingle balls
Bugly42
I mean, some animals react oddly to the first time they encounter a ball. Adding noise just increases the curious-but-wary/afraid factor.
serpentcyborg
True
serpentcyborg
I've had some rats be afraid of them
serpentcyborg
but then, Hermes had lived with a cat at one point (along with other rats), so he likely saw it being played with and figured out that it was fun
Bugly42
Depends on whether the rat is more prey or predator, I guess.
serpentcyborg
Yeah, since rats can be both
serpentcyborg
Hermes wasn't afraid of the cat, though (although I did keep them separate)
serpentcyborg
But the cat was nineteen years old, asthmatic, had no teeth and was a little bit intimidated by the rats
Bugly42
Good reason to keep them apart.
Bugly42
Last thing you want is for a rat to start ruling the roost.
serpentcyborg
But yeah, rats are that middle ground where they do have hunting instincts so will enjoy running down and chasing things, but also are prey most of the time so are super skittish