Quinneapolis
Sometimes I hear about the arguments for esports at the olympics so here's my take
Quinneapolis
a single megacorporation does not own synchronized swimming
Niamh Vibes
Ohhhhhh yeah
Gabiluzbad
Surely Riot won't use this enormous opportunity for personal profit
Quinneapolis
the question of "which game do you put in" instantly destroys the entire idea of esports in the olympics
Quinneapolis
because it's "which game corporation do we give a free billion dollars to"
RobotApocalypse
yeah whenever this discussion comes up, "which game" is the question that always strikes me as the one to kill the whole idea
RobotApocalypse
because esports isn't like, a general thing that you do and are good at, the same as, say, "running" or "archery" or "figure skating" are
Hazard Kitten
yeah, they're very very different games with different requirements, and not only you're giving billions to a corp, you risk snubbing other companies and lose out on potential sponsorships and licensing deals
RobotApocalypse
it seems like the only way you could ever do it fairly would be to have a generic genre game made specifically for the competition that you give the teams x years to practice on before the actual competition
RobotApocalypse
but that...is logistically prohibitive
Princess Emily
develop a non commercial game specifically for esports
Princess Emily
is the only way
RobotApocalypse
yeah exactly
Princess Emily
but they'd never
Quinneapolis
then every company scrambles to make a game almost exactly like the Olympics Game
Quinneapolis
so that people can practice with them
kamikasei
Esports has always seemed far too ephemeral to really directly compare to established sports like that
Hazard Kitten
and then you have the issue of having to pay someone to make it
Princess Emily
I'd assume they'd distribute the game for free
kamikasei
No one's going to issue a balance patch for running
Hazard Kitten
and that company is definitely going to want to put a stamp on their work
Princess Emily
they do update rules for sports
Hazard Kitten
thing is, the rules tend to be
Hazard Kitten
'Don't fucking cheat you dicks'
Hazard Kitten
or 'this will keep people from dying'
RobotApocalypse
yeah the rules updates are usually about scoring or prohibited moves or whatever
Princess Emily
but as long as there are companies profiting off these games it's just. unethical.
Hazard Kitten
and not 'patch reduces how much gravity effects the shot put when thrown'
RobotApocalypse
anyway the other thing is, even if they did make a new game for it, i also feel like they'd have to make a new one every time so that there isn't an unfair advantage in how much time players have had to practice on the game?
Hazard Kitten
as patches do severe change up how esports games are played, while things like mandating helmets, banning doping, or the like doesn't really alter the core sport.
Quinneapolis
RobotApocalypse I don't think that's really an issue? like, people have been playing soccer for lifetimes
Quinneapolis
and it's still played
Princess Emily
yeah
RobotApocalypse
sure but i mean in terms of physical sport you can practice your whole life and the only limitation really is how old you are
Hazard Kitten
so one patch will heavily favor blitzkrieg tactics, then the meta changes and everyone's gotta turtle
Quinneapolis
that would eventually become true of an esports game
RobotApocalypse
but in games there's new shit to discover or exploits to find or whatever that you'll only discover over time
⏏️ndrusi
The only valid Olympics esport is Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games
Quinneapolis
but that's equally true for everyone
⏏️ndrusi
Get that Olympiception going on
Quinneapolis
like. it's a level playing field
Quinneapolis
information about the game's nuances will be documented
Quinneapolis
and people will learn it
RobotApocalypse
i guess i'm also assuming the game wouldn't just be publicly distributed to everyone, and would only be distributed to potential competitors
Quinneapolis
why not? give it to everyone
Quinneapolis
everyone has soccer
RobotApocalypse
that would solve that issue yeah
RobotApocalypse
basically it just has to be accessible to anyone who might one day want to compete so they can practice and train at it for as long as they want
RobotApocalypse
just like any other sport
Gabiluzbad
Every company would make there own version of the Olympics Esport Game but like that's also true of sports
Quinneapolis
then the problem is like... what's the game look like
Quinneapolis
what genre is it
Quinneapolis
who makes it
Gabiluzbad
You're basically making the Official Video Game
RobotApocalypse
in the olympics esport game you're playing the player and controlling their keyboard & mouse input
Quinneapolis
with a controller
Quinneapolis
right stick to move the mouse, left stick to move the keyboard hand over different keys
RobotApocalypse
all the drama and action of real esports!!
Gabiluzbad
The thing is "Video Games" is as broad a range of activities as "Sports"
RobotApocalypse
that being said i feel like the official olympics game(s) could get away with having really basic blocky graphics as long as the game works really well
Gabiluzbad
"What game would be the esport of the olympics" would be like trying to put one sport to represent ALL SPORTS at a video game tournament
Quinneapolis
theoretically it could have bad graphics and work, but here's the other problem
Quinneapolis
the Official Olympics Video Game has two goals
Quinneapolis
Goal 1: Be a fair and engaging video game that esports athletes can use to face each other at the olympics
Quinneapolis
Goal 2: Sell the general populace on the idea of esports at the olympics
RobotApocalypse
oh yeah that 2nd one would be an issue. it's hard to convey technical competence to an audience
Quinneapolis
like, will esports ever be in the olympics? maybe, sure
Quinneapolis
will it be in the next 20 years? ABSOLUTELY not
kamikasei
It certainly shouldn't get in before, like
kamikasei
Chess
Quinneapolis
oh that's a good point
Quinneapolis
chess is a great barometer
RobotApocalypse
hey yeah, why isn't chess in the olympics if we're talking about adding video games!
kamikasei
There's no reason besides branding to regard "esports" as more of a "sport" than other competitive games that have existed for centuries
kamikasei
Except maybe the twitch/hand-eye element, depending on the game
RobotApocalypse
even then, there's speed chess
kamikasei
Instead things like chess and go and poker have their own world-level competitions
kamikasei
Because they're just not the kind of thing the Olympics are for
ULTROHAZARDOUS🐙
that does bring up an interesting point regarding the gaming community's need for validation and legitimacy
ULTROHAZARDOUS🐙
imo, the very root of the arguments for e-sports to be in the olympics is to prove that video games should be taken as seriously as athletics
ULTROHAZARDOUS🐙
meanwhile, most people in the chess and go and poker communities don't really have that. like I think I saw an argument for chess to be in the Olympics a while back, but that's all I can recall
RobotApocalypse
that is an interesting observation, i think you have a good point there
RobotApocalypse
that the whole conversation is really just gamers making a bid for legitimacy in a very specific way
RobotApocalypse
"we're a real sport, see, we're in the olympics now!"
kamikasei
Absolutely
RobotApocalypse
but actually there's nothing wrong with just comparing it to chess. chess has its own international tournament with its own superstars and its own high-profile battles - bobby fischer was a cold war hero in his own way, after all
RobotApocalypse
i think that's gonna be my comeback whenever this topic comes up around me, haha. "chess isn't in the olympics and they don't have a complex about it."
TWO OF THEM
my take is that perhaps if people wanted to be at the olympics they should play a sport that's in the olympics
TWO OF THEM
this is just a simple extension of the stereotypical nerd feeling oppressed by jocks and it's hilarious
Princess Emily
I don't know what chess circles you've been in but
Princess Emily
they absolutely have a complex over not being in the Olympics
Princess Emily
at least every one I've been in
Princess Emily
though granted its been a number of Years since I was big into chess circles
ULTROHAZARDOUS🐙
Princess Emily : I'm pretty glad you commented with this. Like I said, I remember hearing an argument about it a while back, but I wasn't sure how widespread it was, and assumed it wasn't as big as the gamer e-sport thing
ULTROHAZARDOUS🐙
so it's nice to know "okay this wasn't a fever dream I had back in 2001"
Quinneapolis
As of 2019 still trying for it
ULTROHAZARDOUS🐙
though there is still an interesting conversation to be had about social legitimacy, why groups crave it, and how they go about achieving it, re: games and the Olympics. It just extends beyond gamers.
TWO OF THEM
i hate nerds
RobotApocalypse
Princess Emily : oof never mind then lmao, does poker have a complex about it i'll use them instead
Quinneapolis
RobotApocalypse
/throws hands up

no non-athletic game feels valid unless they're an olympic sport, i guess
Quinneapolis
yup
A Grinning DM
It might be worth noting also that sports come and go from the olympics all the time
RobotApocalypse
yeah the article quinn linked does make a point of mentioning that
RobotApocalypse
and also that skateboarding and surfing were added for 2020, which, honestly, is really cool and i support it
RobotApocalypse
they both require a lot of talent and technical skill to pull off well and make good performance/scored sports akin to gymnastics and figure skating
A Grinning DM
I will say that I want to see esports get into the Olympics in my lifetime but not American football, just to see them lose their fucking minds about that
RobotApocalypse
the only good argument for esports in the olympics tbh
RobotApocalypse
"let's troll american football"
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