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[negativity] My mind is still fucking BLOWN by the big RWBY backstory reveal, it's so incredible
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in terms of making NO sense
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I've never seen its equal
Rama
I'm tempted to look it up on the wiki to see if I follow it better but I'm gonna guess no
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Here's the breakdown
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Long ago, in the Before Time
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there was a god of light and a god of darkness, chilling out in hot tubs with humanity
Rama
(Six feet apart 'cause they're not Blake)
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Two people named Ozma and Salem were there, in love
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then Ozma (who looks exactly like Ozpin) died
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Salem approached the God of Light and was like "hey god of light can you resurrect my boyfriend"
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Lightgod was like "No, the balance between life and death is EXTREMELY important, and no matter what, it must be preserved at any cost"
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remember that
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throughout this story
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so Salem then goes to the God of Dark and is like "hey god of darkness can you resurrect my boyfriend"
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and Darkgod is like "sure, no problem"
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and brings Ozma back to life
ᴍᴏʙ.
I never rwby but I’m sittin here
ᴍᴏʙ.
For story time
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this pisses off Lightgod, who pops in and kills Ozma again like "you asshole you can't just go to mom when dad says no"
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and as punishment to Salem for going behind his back, Lightgod kills Ozma permanently and also makes Salem immortal so that she can never be with him
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remember, extremely important balance of life and death
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so like
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Salem is upset
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about this
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and by upset I mean she units all of mankind in a rebellion against the gods
Rama
I mean permakilling one person and making the another immortal is kind of like balance. So far.
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Darkgod responds by killing all of mankind, except for Salem
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like, extincts humanity straight up
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Light "Balance is important" God kind of shrugs and the gods decide to peace out
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but the light god swings by the afterlife on his way out
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to talk to Ozma
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Ozma: "I'm cool here, when Salem dies we can be together again"
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Lightgod: "Actually, uh, she's immortal now, don't ask why"
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"But we're going to task you with a final trial for humanity"
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"Some day, humanity will return" (not explained)
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"When they do, we'll eventually come back to this planet to see if you're being good"
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"So you get resurrection powers where you hop into other people's bodies when you die, low-key erasing them from existence, forever, so that you can guide them towards being united"
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"If humanity isn't united when we get here, we'll destroy all of mankind for good"
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"If they are, we'll return and come back to living with humanity"
ᴍᴏʙ.
Why do we want them here
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the story frames Lightgod as the good god and Darkgod as the bad god
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now Salem is the big bad and like
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good for her
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I hope she wins
Rama
I'm rooting for her
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she got fucked over SO BAD
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also none of this explains what her goal is in the main series, which has still never been clarified
Rama
Other things this backstory doesn't address: the terrifying emotion monsters that are constantly attacking humanity and making the setting into a JRPG, the animal-ear people who live alongside humanity and get oppressed for Reasons.
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the Grimm are born out of the hot tub where the dark god hangs out
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after he left
Rama
Oh okay
Rama
Why
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I dunno
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the catgirl race backstory is just
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"Ozma came back, and now there were faunus"
Rama
Was Oz telling this story? Like is this a limited POV thing?
surαıng
gods: needlesslyy genocides an entire species over a minor mortal dispute over a lady being sad her boyfriend is dead and has no consequences for this and expects to come back.
surαıng
story: they're the good guys!
surαıng
okay.png
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Rama it's told literally by a font of omniscience that knows everything
surαıng
i'd want to murder the gods for that too tbh
Rama
Right, I forgot the context
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my favorite part is Lightgod making "humanity isn't united" the Big Problem for humans to solve as he peaces out
EsperBot
This is like a myth backstory being written by a discordant improv group on the spot.
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when Salem
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LITERALLY UNITED HUMANITY
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against them
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like five minutes ago
Rama
This reminds me I should possibly bug Emily for more Faunus stuff in VALR.
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that and the god of light going "haha whatever" when the god of darkness kills EVERYONE IN THE WORLD
Rama
And also that when you have god conflict as a central peace of worldbuilding, your god characters need a goddamn motivation
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and Salem's big crime against the gods being that she was upset that her boyfriend was dead
surαıng
balance is tooootally important guys
surαıng
wow, what an evil crime. being sad over the death of a loved one
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oh also: Ozma used that same omniscience genie to learn that he has no possible way to kill Salem
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and all this time that he's been leading the entire cast around to follow his plan
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he's just
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had no plan
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he has no idea what he's going to do
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and was just faking it
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so like. A+ dumbledoring
sailor bii
my main crit is that if ozma is a dude he should really be named tip
Rama
Also that
Rama
I was meaning to bring that up
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tip?
sailor bii
i am glad this is reinforcing my decision to not do rwby
sailor bii
ozma is presumably named after princess ozma of oz
Rama
Ozma is a character from the Wizard of Oz novels, actually the rightful princess of Oz whom the Wizard had accidentally-on-purpose usurped
sailor bii
who was for a large chunk of her life a boy named tip
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huh
Rama
Making Ozma and Ozpin (named after the first half of the Wizard's absurdly long acronym of a name) the same character is actually super weird
sailor bii
the wizard's initials spell OZPINHEAD
Rama
Then again this show also has Red Riding Hood and a mythical Chinese dragon as sisters so it's not that weird
sailor bii
this is canon
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it's not like RWBY ever uses its fairytale theming FOR anything
Rama
I am proud of myself for having a concept from the same myth cycle as another player in VALR and actually hashing the general idea of that out beforehand.
Rama
I am proud of myself for hashing any CR out beforehand though
moontouched
yeah the fairytale theming is just like. "it's there because..............sure, name themes i guess"
sailor bii
i'm just glad to share some batshit ozzy trivia with people
Rama
The Oz novels are so fucking weird, they're great
sailor bii
they are
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the cherry on the cake is how learning all of this backstory changes NOTHING
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like
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before it:
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the party doesn't have a plan and doesn't know Salem's objective and is just kind of vaguely trying to Stop her
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after:
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the party doesn't have a plan and doesn't know Salem's objective and is just kind of vaguely trying to Stop her
Rama
Salem is the only one with a plan or a believable motivation so honestly I'm rooting for her and wish her the best
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we don't even know what her plan is
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or what she's trying to do
Rama
I feel like this is how I engaged Game of Thrones except it was less about Daenerys being sympathetic and more about every other character being godawful or having no agency.
★ тяу-нαя∂уи
salem did nothing wrong
Rama
Salem literally did nothing wrong
★ тяу-нαя∂уи
she’s good and my wife and save her from this plot please
boo(f)
I'm honestly partialy glad i never did finish my rwby hatewatch
Rama
I'm just here enjoying the usual plan of "play a tabletop/OCverse that salvages the cool concepts"
boo(f)
i think it would have consumed me in a bad, all-consuming way
Rama
"And also listen to the soundtrack because I like buttrock"
boo(f)
not unlike say, some of ours friends all-consuming burning hatred of Aquarion
boo(f)
which, like, is justified, for obvious reasons
boo(f)
but also i'm not strong enough
Rama
This plurk is big Quinn Vs. Aquarion LOGOS energy, actually
boo(f)
yeah i had forgotten quinn also embarked on the aquarion hatejourney
boo(f)
In some ways I can't even feel hatred for RWBY i just feel kind of depressed
boo(f)
it's bad but not in a way that makes me actually revile it, especially not because of knowledge of how things shook out
boo(f)
it just kinda makes me overall sad
Rama
I'm not even sure I hate it so much as I find it...interestingly bad
HOT TURKEY TAKE
"you had so much potential but i guess it's in a pile on the floor"
HOT TURKEY TAKE
"look at that turd, that was your potential"
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in Aquarion logos, the villain waves a war against the concept of words because his wife was cyberbullied to death
Rama
Like no one involved with it was really up to creating a serial action-drama, and the ways it fails at being that interest me
0 to ∞
And Somewhere There's Silver Eyes
boo(f)
I honestly do think Mouty knew where he wanted to take the story but god only knows what that timeline looks like.
HOT TURKEY TAKE
quinn, which one was the one where the protagonist was the dog, was that logos or evol
Rama
Monty Oum was a fantastic animator and should be admired for his skill in that
oh i'm scary
Evol
oh i'm scary
also the original
oh i'm scary
but you never found out in the original
Rama
Ah, we summoned Raven
oh i'm scary
Evol retconned the original protagonist into being a dog
Rama
(The cool Raven, not whatever is going on with Ruby's mom)
boo(f)
i was desperately trying not to invoke her name while comparing this to Aquarion
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oh god, silver eyes
oh i'm scary
nah I was lurking anyway
boo(f)
DAMMIT
oh i'm scary
just didn't have anything in particular to say
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the absolute pinnacle of The Writers Forgot
HOT TURKEY TAKE
and yeah i'm with nerdo here; monty was good at fight choreography and animation but, mmmmmmm
Rama
Yeah I interrupted myself but
Rama
the writing in the first three seasons wasn't any better
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here's the reveal about the silver eyes
HOT TURKEY TAKE
I cannot say RWBY would be better if he was still around because I question his writing chops
HOT TURKEY TAKE
yeah
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they're a special anti Grimm power fueled by the power of life and the joy it brings you
HOT TURKEY TAKE
like would it be more coherent? maybe
boo(f)
I think if I was forced to choose the timeline between Mounty Oum and Miles Luna I'd still pick Mouty Oum, but I'll admit it can be a bit of a sophie's choice
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and ruby can't control them when she's distracted by negative thoughts
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including
Rama
Probably. I think a big reason for the plot disconnect is that Monty didn't leave any notes and his death was a sudden fluke.
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textually
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pyrrha's death
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pop quiz
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when did ruby first use the silver eyes
Rama
So we'd get a more consistent throughline if he'd lived, it just still would have probably been nonsense.
HOT TURKEY TAKE
yeah I was gonna say "it may be more coherent but for all we know ruby would turn out to be the dog"
boo(f)
end of volume 3? Or did they retcon something.
Rama
She does kinda act like a puppy.
Rama
boo(f) : Immediately after Pyrrha's death, is what Quinn is going for
HOT TURKEY TAKE
but quinn also said "can't control" as opposed to "can't use" so I dunno if that was intended or just a semantic fumble
HOT TURKEY TAKE
like, cyclops can't control his murder eyes without the visor but that doesn't mean they don't exist
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yeah I meant can't use
HOT TURKEY TAKE
ah okay
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no difference
boo(f)
yeah i mean it's complete nonsense, honestly
HOT TURKEY TAKE
then yeah that's a nice big plothole we get to sit in
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like she tries to use them, but thinks of pyrrha and fails
HOT TURKEY TAKE
oh so it's a plothole they keep directly pointing at, even better
HOT TURKEY TAKE
yeah that one's a Consistency Thing that we would not have in the other timeline
Rama
Also like, it's worth mentioning, even in all this negativity
Rama
Save most of the cast from this show
Rama
There are good characters people have done amazing things with outside of this alleged plot
HOT TURKEY TAKE
i've seen people actually rp jaune compellingly, and he's the one who's miles luna's precious bab
HOT TURKEY TAKE
so yeah save the cast from the plot
Rama
The key to a character like Jaune being successful is you have to realize and appreciate that he's a garbagechild.
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there's a pyrrha's legacy episode
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it's entirely about jaune
Rama
Was that really a whole episode
Rabbit Crimes
God I was so infuriated when I first learned about this backstory
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I dunno
Rabbit Crimes
It fails at worldbuilding and basic-ass plot and character construction on SO MANY LEVELS
Rabbit Crimes
And all of it can be fixed in like, five minutes
Rama
I'm already fixing it in my head for the next time I want to make a fantasy setting
Rabbit Crimes
I have a halfway done rewrite I need to get back to
Rabbit Crimes
Especially since I originally excised the Faunus entirely but came up with a way to incorporate them 1) sanely and with an actual origin and 2) without dumb Metaphorical Racism Bullshit
Rama
I'm okay with the metaphorical racism but a thing a lot of fantasy writers don't get about racism is that it's not supposed to make sense
Rama
Which is a problem a lot of people run into when writing orcs and the like
Echo
In fairness to Oz, I feel like at this point he's just kind of trying to go for the least bad option.
Echo
Like, okay, he can't kill Salem. But letting Salem end the world is clearly not an option. So he's just trying to figure something out.
Echo
From an out-of-universe perspective, it's bad writing, yeah.
Echo
From an in-universe perspective, I'm willing to let that particular problem slide as 'okay, this dude has possibly millennia of PTSD and is just frantically trying to prevent the apocalypse by throwing more heroes at the problem and praying something works'.
Echo
But overall it's definitely still a messy waste of interesting plot elements.
Rama
It's also pretty clear that the writers aren't really doing anything with that
Rama
Other than "Oz doesn't know what he's going to do because we don't know what he's going to do"
Echo
Yeah that's kind of the main problem with a lot of all this, really.
Echo
The writers don't seem to have any idea what they're going to do with All This Cool Stuff, they just introduce it and that's it/
Rama
It takes a very particular kind of genius to improv a whole story like that, and it's really not feasible or wise with a relatively expensive and time-intensive animated production anyway
✶ 絶対嘘じゃない、愛してる
it kind of feels like – since they've said they're working off monty's notes for the future arcs – that they're tossing in all the elements monty had already planned out because they don't want to discard his work
✶ 絶対嘘じゃない、愛してる
but because they don't know what any of the connecting tissue was supposed to be, it comes out like... this
Princess Emily
wait THAT'S the backstory
Vehrec
Emily, I thought you knew this.
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that's the backstory
Rama
The whole world-spanning mythological backstory that it turns out is only relevant to Oz and Salem and doesn't actually explain either of their actions either.
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the wildest thing about this is that it doesn't frame the light god as the fuckin final boss
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the real problem of this world is that these two gods are petty sociopaths
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I think if I was rewriting it I'd condense the two gods into one god
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and have Salem like steal some kind of immortality power behind god's back
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and then have the god be the true villain
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honestly I'd also fold a lot of Ozma's shit into Salem
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her curse is immortality and she can only free herself of it if she unites humanity before god returns
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thusly motivating her to do a Big Fascism
Princess Emily
I bowed out of rwby in volume 3
Princess Emily
and I don't think anybody ever actually touched on this in their "why I hate rwby" posts
Princess Emily
which is where I learn about shit that happened after s3
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not many people were still around as of s6
HOT TURKEY TAKE
I remember Quinn touched on it before but I don't think it was in a raw negativity post
HOT TURKEY TAKE
might've been a liveplurking
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it was from Mary Cagle's RWBY podcast
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oh btw we learned why the moon is mysteriously fucked up
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it's because
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the dark god ran into it by mistake
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while leaving
HOT TURKEY TAKE
the dark king of all cosmos
Princess Emily
what
Princess Emily
the moon isn't even plot relevant??
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mystery solved!!!
Princess Emily
WHAT
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That's RWBY!!!!!
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HOT TURKEY TAKE
"oops chipped the paint, ehh, nobody will notice"
HOT TURKEY TAKE
just a mythological fender-bender
Princess Emily
wow
Princess Emily
I'm suddenly a lot more confident that I'm doing fine with VALR
You're Quinner
if your setting has any explanation for anything then you're doing amazing
Princess Emily
because I'm pretty sure I'm a better writer than RWBY's team now
Rama
RWBY's writing staff are at their best doing screwball comedy
Rama
They really had no business going into the battle school anime genre
Rama
Unless they were also going to make it screwball comedy
Rama
Which would have been a pretty good show actually
Rama
No business going into unironic battle school anime how about that
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