Onigashima
A stupid thought I sometimes keep coming back to:
Onigashima
Final Fantasy X, a 2001 video game about killing God while hating your dad
Onigashima
Metal Gear Solid 2, a 2001 video game about killing your dad while hating God
Villain
That's a pretty dumb thought for sure
Onigashima
Best Friends Play FFX finished yesterday and I've been thinking about it a lot
Onigashima
What a weird mishmash of a game
Onigashima
some cool plot ideas, a great combat engine
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bizarre characters
Onigashima
both in writing and in visual design
Onigashima
some real weird pacing
HotXC
Lots of good! Lots of weird!
HotXC
I was one of those lunatics that liked Blitzball
Onigashima
I liked the idea of it but the mechanics were super unintuitive
Onigashima
with a better actual engine I'd totally play Blitzball Manager 2016
Onigashima
a lot of the visuals are starting to look really dated now
Onigashima
like how everyone has the same walk cycle regardless of the situation and it looks really awkward in cutscenes
Onigashima
I never quite got tired of the Best Friends' joke-characterization of Weird Racist Wakka
Onigashima
There's a lot of shit in the game that feels kind of weird and unfinished
Onigashima
like the final Seymour battle
Onigashima
where there's all this shit where you can attack the discs to rotate them and change his elements and shit
Onigashima
...or you can just ignore them and cast nulblaze
Onigashima
and then he dies in a couple turns anyway
EsperBot
Grand Wizard Wakka was fantastic.
Onigashima
THE FINAL RACIST AEON
moved:idolhell
omg it sounds like I need to watch this
Onigashima
advance warning
Onigashima
they are really bad at FFX
Onigashima
despite having a guide open in front of them
moved:idolhell
posts this on shower thoughts btw
Onigashima
it's very nice
Onigashima
it plays out sort of like a puzzle game
Onigashima
with the different character specializations, the manipulation of the turn order bar, and the rarity of all-target anythings
Onigashima
plus the Sphere Grid was just super satisfying to fuck around with
EsperBot
The best thing about Grand Wizard Wakka is that in the actual game Wakka is such a nothing character
Onigashima
he could be cut from the game entirely and you'd lose basically nothing
EsperBot
Yeah.
Onigashima
FFX's cast is generally too big
Onigashima
why is Kimahri around, he has sort of a sideplot with ronso horn dynamics or whatever but it gets dropped pretty fast
Onigashima
then he spends the last 2/3rds of the game frowning at the party
Onigashima
while saying nothing
Onigashima
Rikku could probably be dropped too
moved:idolhell
I like rikku :c
Onigashima
I guess Rikku's role in the story is being an Al Bhed
Onigashima
HotXC
I'd go less 'drop characters' and more 'make them relevant'
Onigashima
yeah you need about 6-7 people for teh combat system to mesh well
EsperBot
Wakka and Kihmari are both pretty pointless as characters, Rikku's better but not that much more.
Rama
I thought Rikku's role in the story was actually being happy
Rama
Plus it's FF, you've got to have 1, 3, or zero female characters
BF
I actually liked Wakka's role in the story as being that of the Average Citizen
BF
like I enjoyed his storyline about being a believer in the whole summoning religion and then having to accept that his religion's prophet was a crazy snake lady
moved:idolhell
Yeah, I love Wakka as the everydude.
moved:idolhell
and it does a good job at exposing how people who can be nice, friendly and welcoming can have deep prejudices
Rama
You know, looking up plot spoilers since I never finished FFX
Rama
It's more like Mass Effect (or rather, vice versa) than anything else
✧ Navigator ✧
khimari essentially became Yuna's guardian in place of Auron; he found Auron on the mountain and honoured his request to take her from Bevelle to Besaid so she could be raised in peace
Rama
Giant fish with badly-programmed "preservation" directives periodically destroy society.
✧ Navigator ✧
hence why he is around in the story, in addition for them to include a non-human race in the active party that fills the dragoon role
Onigashima
the problem with khimari is that the story gives him nothing to do for the last like 20 hours
EsperBot
BF : I like that idea but the problem with it is at the time when that would be most relevant, he spends the whole time just standing in the background goofily yelling OHHHHHH NOOOOOO
Onigashima
at least part of that is probably FFX's Really Bad voice direction
Onigashima
the English voicework varies from functional to awful and it's not like they're all bad actors
EsperBot
He has his whole worldview destroyed and it's just kind of played for laughs.
EsperBot
I don't think he even has anything to say when they get to Yunalesca, which is crazy
BF
really? I liked his "even in death" speech right before the Yunalesca battle
Onigashima
Onigashima
without the Best Friends talking over it god the voicework is even worse than I remember
Onigashima
Wakka's dialogue when faced with his entire worldview being a lie:
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1: "But if we're super good it'll stop, ya?"
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2: "I won't run away"
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cut to fight
Onigashima
If we're going with that interpretation of his character he really should've had some kind of emotional moment here
Onigashima
I feel like this is kind of a recurring issue with FFX's story - setting up plot threads and then kind of vaguely forgetting about them later
BF
his moment is kind of overshadowed by Auron and Yuna
Onigashima
FFX tries to do an ensemble plot but is really clumsy at balancing the characters
EsperBot
My big complaint with the voice acting is a weird one because I'm not sure if it's bad English voice direction or if it's like this in the Japanese too and her characterization is just weird but
EsperBot
OTHER CHARACTER: "I am dying/leaving/having something bad happening to me, you'll do the emotionally important thing, right Yuna?"
EsperBot
YUNA: <uncomfortably long pause, then in an incredibly abrupt and monotone manner:> "Yes."
EsperBot
This happens like three times in the last couple hours of the game and it's SO WEIRD
BF
a lot of FFX's acting flaws are forgivable to me because it was the first time the series made the jump to voice acting/dubbing
BF
FF12 is a major step up (for anyone who isn't Vaan and Penelo)
Rama
FFX's voice acting is still not as bad as VII or VIII's text scripts
Rama
It's just more noticeable because you have to listen to it
Onigashima
it's a very early voiced game
Onigashima
like games with that volume of voice work were super rare at the time
Onigashima
so it's definitely a growing pains issue
BF
Onigashima
yeah I'm over the Tidus Laugh
Onigashima
my beef is with the rest of that script
Onigashima
like if I met James Taylor at a con I'd 100% want to get a recording of him Tidus Laughing at me
dragon time
and then theres the lip flap issue they were dealing with to some extent
Rama
Man
Rama
Why don't video games record actors as a group?
Rama
Plenty of cartoons do that
HotXC
scheduling conflicts?
Onigashima
I think the most overt example of the FF series having voice direction issues
Onigashima
Onigashima
the actors have more chemistry in this dumb improv con sketch than they did in actual FFXIII
✧ Navigator ✧
yeah, I think the amount of time and money and quality of actors now available for doing a good job with voicework really shows in comparison back then -- and FFX was a+ at the time compared
✧ Navigator ✧
to what had come before
✧ Navigator ✧
if anything it proved it could be done, and would be popular
Onigashima
I think FF7 was the first FF game with a story that felt weirdly bloated
Onigashima
as they went into the CG spectacle era and were like "quick, put everything in this"
Rama
Previous games had a lot of padding, but...yeah, FFVII is the one where they started throwing everything into a blender
Onigashima
1 through 4 honestly barely have plots
Onigashima
5 is a wacky fantasy romp that doesn't overstay its welcome, 6 is a goddamn opera
Onigashima
7+ is FF Can You Maybe Chill
EsperBot
Rama : I think part of it is that video games being what they are, the voice clips might not be used in sequence
EsperBot
so having them have a conversation in the booth, although leading to better acting, might not improve the final product.
Rama
Minigames, Minigames, so many so many minigames
Onigashima
FFX's acting already sounds like all the lines were recorded in random order out of context
Onigashima
so I mean, what do they have to lose
Rama
Hard to tell things apart, which is the normal game which is the minigame
Rama
CRP minigame, dolphin jump minigame, battlebots minigame, gay orgy minigame
Onigashima
if memory serves, 9 got overly busy in the final act
Onigashima
but it's a bit more coherent yeah
Onigashima
12 I'd be totally on board with if you just straight up deleted Vaan
Rama
9 had a loooot of plotlines I didn't really follow
Rama
But it was pretty well put together
Onigashima
let the princess whose name I forget be the protag
BF
literally anyone else in the main party would be a better protagonist than Vaan or Penelo
BF
hell even Fran being the main character would be a more fascinating narrative
Onigashima
I'd probably play an epic RPG about a bunnygirl and her pirate sidekick
Onigashima
I'm pretty sure that over 50% of Square's female leads in games have been Lightning
Rama
I thought Lightning was just Girl Cloud
Onigashima
she is
Onigashima
I don't mean 'expies of Lightning'
Onigashima
I mean actually Lightnings
Rama
Oh
EsperBot
Does anyone actually want a whole series of games headed by Lightning
Onigashima
I don't necessarily hate Lightning
Onigashima
but I think she's about done
Rama
Let's see, if we're talking The Main Character, there's her, Aya, uh...Lenneth...
Onigashima
Terra
Onigashima
technically max Caulfield
Onigashima
Max*
Rama
Yeah if VI has a main character it's Terra for the first half and Celes for the second half
Onigashima
Ashe kind of felt like a midpoint between Celes and Yuna, she was tough but also kinda soft-spoken a lot of the time
Onigashima
if memory serves
Onigashima
the main non-Vaan weirdness in FF12 that I remember is the ending of
Onigashima
"oh shit we forgot to have a final dungeon UH"
Rama
FFVI really doesn't have One Central Character. There's an ensemble in which some characters are more relevant than others.
Rama
Generally speaking, if we're talking Final Fantasy specifically, Square reuses three overall archetypes: The Scrappy Girl (elegance optional), the Girly Girl (troll streak optional), and the Little Girl
Rama
(stealing all your fucking material optional)
Rama
*materia
Onigashima
OK so I've never seen much of FFX-2 but like
Onigashima
I watched the opening cutscene once
Onigashima
of like pop star girls who are also secretly goofy spies doing spy shit during an idol concert
Onigashima
and if you divorce that idea from it being an FF game I don't hate it?
Onigashima
it looked kinda fun
Rama
I think X and X-2 change out the third slot to add more sex appeal.
Rama
Which is better than keeping it the same and adding more sex appeal, no question
Onigashima
I also gather that the Good Ending is worse than the Neutral Ending thematically
Onigashima
since a whole big chunk of Yuna's arc is about moving on from losing Tidus and in the Good End he comes back and she's like "lol nvm"
Onigashima
his weird-looking face getting bigger and bigger
Awe
IIRC the TDI LP of FFX actually did just that, is treat that as FFX-2's good end
Awe
and then has Yuna do some exposition on what happened for like the past two years or however long it was
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