xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:09 PM
1
A stupid thought I sometimes keep coming back to:
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:09 PM
Final Fantasy X, a 2001 video game about killing God while hating your dad
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:09 PM
Metal Gear Solid 2, a 2001 video game about killing your dad while hating God
GalacticBattler
@Overbringer
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:09 PM
That's a pretty dumb thought for sure
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:10 PM
Best Friends Play FFX finished yesterday and I've been thinking about it a lot
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:10 PM
What a weird mishmash of a game
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:11 PM
some cool plot ideas, a great combat engine
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:11 PM
bizarre characters
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:11 PM
both in writing and in visual design
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:11 PM
some real weird pacing
DoveEaterXC
@UltraDude
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:11 PM
Lots of good! Lots of weird!
DoveEaterXC
@UltraDude
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:12 PM
I was one of those lunatics that liked Blitzball
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:12 PM
I liked the idea of it but the mechanics were super unintuitive
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:12 PM
with a better actual engine I'd totally play Blitzball Manager 2016
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:13 PM
a lot of the visuals are starting to look really dated now
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:13 PM
like how everyone has the same walk cycle regardless of the situation and it looks really awkward in cutscenes
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:14 PM
I never quite got tired of the Best Friends' joke-characterization of Weird Racist Wakka
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:15 PM
There's a lot of shit in the game that feels kind of weird and unfinished
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:15 PM
like the final Seymour battle
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:15 PM
where there's all this shit where you can attack the discs to rotate them and change his elements and shit
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:15 PM
...or you can just ignore them and cast nulblaze
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:15 PM
and then he dies in a couple turns anyway
EsperBot
@PikaBot
說
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:16 PM
Grand Wizard Wakka was fantastic.
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:16 PM
THE FINAL RACIST AEON
moved:idolhell
@ninatherose
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:16 PM
omg it sounds like I need to watch this
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:16 PM
advance warning
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:16 PM
they are really bad at FFX
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:16 PM
despite having a guide open in front of them
moved:idolhell
@ninatherose
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:17 PM
posts this on shower thoughts btw
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:17 PM
it's very nice
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:18 PM
it plays out sort of like a puzzle game
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:18 PM
with the different character specializations, the manipulation of the turn order bar, and the rarity of all-target anythings
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:18 PM
plus the Sphere Grid was just super satisfying to fuck around with
EsperBot
@PikaBot
說
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:19 PM
The best thing about Grand Wizard Wakka is that in the actual game Wakka is such a nothing character
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:19 PM
he could be cut from the game entirely and you'd lose basically nothing
EsperBot
@PikaBot
說
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:20 PM
Yeah.
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:20 PM
FFX's cast is generally too big
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:20 PM
why is Kimahri around, he has sort of a sideplot with ronso horn dynamics or whatever but it gets dropped pretty fast
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:21 PM
then he spends the last 2/3rds of the game frowning at the party
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:21 PM
while saying nothing
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:21 PM
Rikku could probably be dropped too
moved:idolhell
@ninatherose
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:21 PM
I like rikku :c
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:22 PM
I guess Rikku's role in the story is being an Al Bhed
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:23 PM
Best Friends Play Final Fantasy X (Part 1)
 for posterity
DoveEaterXC
@UltraDude
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:24 PM
I'd go less 'drop characters' and more 'make them relevant'
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:25 PM
yeah you need about 6-7 people for teh combat system to mesh well
EsperBot
@PikaBot
說
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:25 PM
Wakka and Kihmari are both pretty pointless as characters, Rikku's better but not that much more.
Rama
@Nerdorama
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:25 PM
I thought Rikku's role in the story was actually being happy
Rama
@Nerdorama
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:26 PM
Plus it's FF, you've got to have 1, 3, or zero female characters
BF
@blazingfool
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:26 PM
I actually liked Wakka's role in the story as being that of the Average Citizen
BF
@blazingfool
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:26 PM
like I enjoyed his storyline about being a believer in the whole summoning religion and then having to accept that his religion's prophet was a crazy snake lady
moved:idolhell
@ninatherose
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:29 PM
Yeah, I love Wakka as the everydude.
moved:idolhell
@ninatherose
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:30 PM
and it does a good job at exposing how people who can be nice, friendly and welcoming can have deep prejudices
Rama
@Nerdorama
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:32 PM
You know, looking up plot spoilers since I never finished FFX
Rama
@Nerdorama
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:32 PM
It's more like Mass Effect (or rather, vice versa) than anything else
✧ Navigator ✧
@farlichu
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:35 PM
khimari essentially became Yuna's guardian in place of Auron; he found Auron on the mountain and honoured his request to take her from Bevelle to Besaid so she could be raised in peace
Rama
@Nerdorama
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:36 PM
Giant fish with badly-programmed "preservation" directives periodically destroy society.
✧ Navigator ✧
@farlichu
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:36 PM
hence why he is around in the story, in addition for them to include a non-human race in the active party that fills the dragoon role
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:37 PM
the problem with khimari is that the story gives him nothing to do for the last like 20 hours
EsperBot
@PikaBot
說
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:38 PM
BF : I like that idea but the problem with it is at the time when that would be most relevant, he spends the whole time just standing in the background goofily yelling OHHHHHH NOOOOOO
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:38 PM
at least part of that is probably FFX's Really Bad voice direction
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:39 PM
the English voicework varies from functional to awful and it's not like they're all bad actors
EsperBot
@PikaBot
說
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:41 PM
He has his whole worldview destroyed and it's just kind of played for laughs.
EsperBot
@PikaBot
說
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:41 PM
I don't think he even has anything to say when they get to Yunalesca, which is crazy
BF
@blazingfool
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:43 PM
really? I liked his "even in death" speech right before the Yunalesca battle
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:48 PM
Final Fantasy X HD Remaster - Lady Yunalesca Boss Ba...
 let's take a look
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:48 PM
without the Best Friends talking over it god the voicework is even worse than I remember
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:52 PM
Wakka's dialogue when faced with his entire worldview being a lie:
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:53 PM
1: "But if we're super good it'll stop, ya?"
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:53 PM
2: "I won't run away"
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:53 PM
cut to fight
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:53 PM
If we're going with that interpretation of his character he really should've had some kind of emotional moment here
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:54 PM
I feel like this is kind of a recurring issue with FFX's story - setting up plot threads and then kind of vaguely forgetting about them later
BF
@blazingfool
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:57 PM
his moment is kind of overshadowed by Auron and Yuna
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:58 PM
FFX tries to do an ensemble plot but is really clumsy at balancing the characters
EsperBot
@PikaBot
說
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 4:59 PM
My big complaint with the voice acting is a weird one because I'm not sure if it's bad English voice direction or if it's like this in the Japanese too and her characterization is just weird but
EsperBot
@PikaBot
說
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:00 PM
OTHER CHARACTER: "I am dying/leaving/having something bad happening to me, you'll do the emotionally important thing, right Yuna?"
EsperBot
@PikaBot
說
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:01 PM
YUNA: <uncomfortably long pause, then in an incredibly abrupt and monotone manner:> "Yes."
EsperBot
@PikaBot
說
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:01 PM
This happens like three times in the last couple hours of the game and it's SO WEIRD
BF
@blazingfool
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:05 PM
a lot of FFX's acting flaws are forgivable to me because it was the first time the series made the jump to voice acting/dubbing
BF
@blazingfool
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:06 PM
FF12 is a major step up (for anyone who isn't Vaan and Penelo)
Rama
@Nerdorama
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:07 PM
FFX's voice acting is still not as bad as VII or VIII's text scripts
Rama
@Nerdorama
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:08 PM
It's just more noticeable because you have to listen to it
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:11 PM
it's a very early voiced game
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:11 PM
like games with that volume of voice work were super rare at the time
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:11 PM
so it's definitely a growing pains issue
BF
@blazingfool
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:14 PM
The real story behind the Tidus Laugh from Final Fan...
 relevant
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:14 PM
yeah I'm over the Tidus Laugh
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:14 PM
my beef is with the rest of that script
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:14 PM
like if I met James Taylor at a con I'd 100% want to get a recording of him Tidus Laughing at me
bird time
@MadarFoxfire
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:16 PM
and then theres the lip flap issue they were dealing with to some extent
Rama
@Nerdorama
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:18 PM
Man
Rama
@Nerdorama
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:18 PM
Why don't video games record actors as a group?
Rama
@Nerdorama
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:18 PM
Plenty of cartoons do that
DoveEaterXC
@UltraDude
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:21 PM
scheduling conflicts?
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:24 PM
I think the most overt example of the FF series having voice direction issues
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:24 PM
Final Fantasy XIII voice actors sketch
 is this
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:24 PM
the actors have more chemistry in this dumb improv con sketch than they did in actual FFXIII
✧ Navigator ✧
@farlichu
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:28 PM
yeah, I think the amount of time and money and quality of actors now available for doing a good job with voicework really shows in comparison back then -- and FFX was a+ at the time compared
✧ Navigator ✧
@farlichu
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:28 PM
to what had come before
✧ Navigator ✧
@farlichu
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:28 PM
if anything it proved it could be done, and would be popular
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:46 PM
I think FF7 was the first FF game with a story that felt weirdly bloated
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:46 PM
as they went into the CG spectacle era and were like "quick, put everything in this"
Rama
@Nerdorama
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:47 PM
Previous games had a lot of padding, but...yeah, FFVII is the one where they started throwing everything into a blender
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:48 PM
1 through 4 honestly barely have plots
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:48 PM
5 is a wacky fantasy romp that doesn't overstay its welcome, 6 is a goddamn opera
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:48 PM
7+ is FF Can You Maybe Chill
EsperBot
@PikaBot
說
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:49 PM
Rama : I think part of it is that video games being what they are, the voice clips might not be used in sequence
EsperBot
@PikaBot
說
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:49 PM
so having them have a conversation in the booth, although leading to better acting, might not improve the final product.
Rama
@Nerdorama
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:50 PM
Minigames, Minigames, so many so many minigames
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:50 PM
FFX's acting already sounds like all the lines were recorded in random order out of context
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:50 PM
so I mean, what do they have to lose
Rama
@Nerdorama
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:50 PM
Hard to tell things apart, which is the normal game which is the minigame
Rama
@Nerdorama
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:50 PM
CRP minigame, dolphin jump minigame, battlebots minigame, gay orgy minigame
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:51 PM
if memory serves, 9 got overly busy in the final act
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:51 PM
but it's a bit more coherent yeah
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:51 PM
12 I'd be totally on board with if you just straight up deleted Vaan
Rama
@Nerdorama
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:51 PM
9 had a loooot of plotlines I didn't really follow
Rama
@Nerdorama
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:52 PM
But it was pretty well put together
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:52 PM
let the princess whose name I forget be the protag
BF
@blazingfool
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:52 PM
literally anyone else in the main party would be a better protagonist than Vaan or Penelo
BF
@blazingfool
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:53 PM
hell even Fran being the main character would be a more fascinating narrative
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:55 PM
I'd probably play an epic RPG about a bunnygirl and her pirate sidekick
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:55 PM
I'm pretty sure that over 50% of Square's female leads in games have been Lightning
Rama
@Nerdorama
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:55 PM
I thought Lightning was just Girl Cloud
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:56 PM
she is
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:56 PM
I don't mean 'expies of Lightning'
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:56 PM
I mean actually Lightnings
Rama
@Nerdorama
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:56 PM
Oh
EsperBot
@PikaBot
說
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:56 PM
Does anyone actually want a whole series of games headed by Lightning
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:57 PM
I don't necessarily hate Lightning
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:57 PM
but I think she's about done
Rama
@Nerdorama
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:57 PM
Let's see, if we're talking The Main Character, there's her, Aya, uh...Lenneth...
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:57 PM
Terra
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:57 PM
technically max Caulfield
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:57 PM
Max*
Rama
@Nerdorama
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:57 PM
Yeah if VI has a main character it's Terra for the first half and Celes for the second half
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:58 PM
Ashe kind of felt like a midpoint between Celes and Yuna, she was tough but also kinda soft-spoken a lot of the time
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:58 PM
if memory serves
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:58 PM
the main non-Vaan weirdness in FF12 that I remember is the ending of
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:58 PM
"oh shit we forgot to have a final dungeon UH"
Rama
@Nerdorama
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 5:59 PM
FFVI really doesn't have One Central Character. There's an ensemble in which some characters are more relevant than others.
Rama
@Nerdorama
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 6:00 PM
Generally speaking, if we're talking Final Fantasy specifically, Square reuses three overall archetypes: The Scrappy Girl (elegance optional), the Girly Girl (troll streak optional), and the Little Girl
Rama
@Nerdorama
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 6:00 PM
(stealing all your fucking material optional)
Rama
@Nerdorama
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 6:00 PM
*materia
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 6:01 PM
OK so I've never seen much of FFX-2 but like
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 6:01 PM
I watched the opening cutscene once
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 6:01 PM
of like pop star girls who are also secretly goofy spies doing spy shit during an idol concert
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 6:01 PM
and if you divorce that idea from it being an FF game I don't hate it?
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 6:01 PM
it looked kinda fun
Rama
@Nerdorama
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 6:01 PM
I think X and X-2 change out the third slot to add more sex appeal.
Rama
@Nerdorama
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 6:02 PM
Which is better than keeping it the same and adding more sex appeal, no question
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 6:04 PM
I also gather that the Good Ending is worse than the Neutral Ending thematically
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 6:04 PM
since a whole big chunk of Yuna's arc is about moving on from losing Tidus and in the Good End he comes back and she's like "lol nvm"
xyzzy
@quinn2win
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 6:07 PM
his weird-looking face getting bigger and bigger
Awe
@awestriker
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 6:08 PM
IIRC the TDI LP of FFX actually did just that, is treat that as FFX-2's good end
Awe
@awestriker
Mon, Apr 25, 2016 6:09 PM
and then has Yuna do some exposition on what happened for like the past two years or however long it was
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