Voshie
I've been thinking about the whole original mesh concept and I find it 'funny' (not the right word) that there's so much an emphasis on 'original' mesh and not templates but quite a few mesh makers use
Voshie
3D brushes which are similar to templates in their work so technically it's not original either.
Voshie
it's a resource, just like any item that can be purchased. I wish things were judged strictly on a person's work regardless of where it comes from (as long as it's legal of course)
Wavie Haller
I think it's a stretch to compare using 3d brushes to sl templates but events are more accepting gradually, there's a set at the arcade that used a very old creator kit I made this round for example
Heather/Sanura🦩
But how will people be able to feel better than others? 
Heather/Sanura🦩
I know even with templates I work really hard on my textures to make them stand out.
oOo Olaenka
the problem I have with templates is not knowing it's one, paying an original mesh price for it, and then seeing it somewhere else for less.
♥Eilfie♥
oOo Olaenka
: i agree with this. this is the only reason ive ever tagged my items as "original mesh". to help justify the prices of my items. not to put down template creators.
oOo Olaenka
the other thing is knowing which events actually allow templates. I bought a dress I really liked at an event I thought had original only, and saw it at another event later. I felt swindled.
Elroth
If people are taking a brush, clicking once to pop out the brushes mesh (say, a horn), slapping a quick 20 minute texture on it and importing to call it original mesh, I have a problem with that.
Elroth
It's not original mesh, its someone else's mesh you're texturing. Same as a kit. But I have no issue with taking a brush and creating new things with it - eg a helmet with a horn brush used for detail
Elroth
The big difference for me is amount of work. A good kit texture can take 4 hours, more maybe. A good mesh can take 20-40+ and need textures too. Yet people expect to pay the same. THAT is what screws OM makers
EvieMiles
No one used to give a crap about how much time went into the making of anything for SL, and it seems no one cares now, unless it's mesh.
EvieMiles
Detailed texture work, hand painted from scratch, can take me up to 2 weeks to really get right by the time I sort out all the recolours, etc. You could argue that I'm just slow, but I'd like to think the final
EvieMiles
result is worth it. No one ever had "Original texture events" or cared (and they still don't) if someone photo sourced their stuff.
EvieMiles
Animations take a long time. Scripting takes a long time, depending on the job. Mesh is just new. I don't have an issue with people wanting to be compensated for their time and effort.. . I do resent the view
EvieMiles
that everyone else is just a slacker and there's no heart (or art!) in it.
EvieMiles
Skinners are the one exception. They're creating textures for the SAME avatar body, or mesh template bodies in the developer kits handed out.
Siddean
probably because scripts and animations and textures have to be made for SL and anyone can just go to turbosquid or wherever and download ready made meshes.
Wavie Haller
EvieMiles
: just out of interest why do you use templates? you sound intelligent and talented enough to learn to make your own mesh as well as texture if you wanted to
EvieMiles
Wavie Haller
: Thank you, I appreciate that. For me, it comes down to simple priorities. I've just turned 8 in SL, and my son just turned 8, also. He has some additional challenges, and I began studying 2 years
EvieMiles
ago. I began Blender lessons, but found that ultimately, I had to make a decision about where my energy would be better spent. If you haven't cried over Blender, you're not doing it right! lol
EvieMiles
I'm a texture artist. Self-taught. I messed about spectacularly with prims, and even sculpts. My business has reduced, as has my Marketing efforts as have my profit margins, obviously.
EvieMiles
Now, I bring to SL what I can, through my textures and trying as best I can to interpret mesh resources, in an original way.
Wavie Haller
I consider myself a self taught texture artist too that just happens to be able to Rez a few cubes in maya. I suppose layers and sl prim building turned us all into that, I miss fake baking sl
☆Lourdes☆
The issue I have is quality. A lot of stores that primarily use templates use cheap ones that I always have issues with.
EvieMiles
I'm still at it! lol I think it might have been easier, if I made buildings, or furniture. Clothing, you have the added stress of rigging, etc.
☆Lourdes☆
So I tend to stay away from template stores.
Wavie Haller
Textures, especially on prims
EvieMiles
But, unless I were an SL mogul like Siddean, I can't expect to make a decent living off of SL. So my study, and my long term "outside SL" goals, had to become a priority. I love creating, though. I feel
EvieMiles
privileged that people (perhaps not the high-flying fashion set) still enjoy what I make.
EvieMiles
And if they ever stopped, I'd probably still do it just for myself.
EvieMiles
☆Lourdes☆
: I agree with you. But to be honest, there's quite a few original mesh clothing stores who have, or have had issues with their rigging. And quality mesh with horrible, tinted flat textures.
Wavie Haller
Idk how much you make and won't ask but I'm sure you could make a living off of it if you learn maya or blender or zbrush. if I can then you can. I haven't had a rl job in my life, I joined sl when
Wavie Haller
I was 18-19 and always made a living from sl since on wavie or alts
EvieMiles
Possibly, who knows? I'll always be incredibly grateful to SL for being an opportunity while I really couldn't get out and work on a career. But I'm on my own, and I suppose the idea of a more stable career
EvieMiles
appeals to me.
☆Lourdes☆
EvieMiles
: I agree I avoid them also. But I'm more sympathetic because they are trying to learn.
EvieMiles
☆Lourdes☆
: I'd be more sympathetic if their pricing reflected the stage of learning they were at. I think it's awesome, that people are taking on the challenge. But again, it's no different, for me, to people
EvieMiles
who have learned how to texture, or make their own animations instead of just buying a pack full-perm, etc.
Elroth
I deliberately didn't bring scripts into the discussion - I'm utterly uncreative visually. I'm a scripter and if you think mesh/textures/etc are devalued, never consider doing scripting.
Elroth
And
EvieMiles
I didn't mean to devalue great texturing, I know how long it Can take - but at the end of the day for Original Mesh the creator has to make the mesh first then do textures As Well.
EvieMiles
Elroth
: Absolutely. And I will be first in line to buy those things. But there's plenty of original mesh with a plain, tinted bake, or photo sourced textures, or purchased and downloaded textures and
EvieMiles
even textures swiped off a website.
EvieMiles
I'll still buy those, too, if the overall product is something I like. I just don't see the difference.
EvieMiles
Someone who meshes, textures and animates their own furniture, for example, should be able to charge 3 x as much for a couch. But there's a point where you can price yourself out of your market.
EvieMiles
So I suppose I look at labelling something as "Original Mesh" as just another marketing tool, and one that obviously works.
Elroth
I look at it as a promise that I won't see the same couch/shirt/hat etc from 50 designers with slightly different looks. There was a template crate a while back that I swear, every template using store had
Elroth
one out for sale, in an event, in a hunt, in...yeah. It was just kinda sad. Then someone put feet on it, animated it to make it walk little circles - and that was awesome. It always comes down to creativity.
Nevermore
<3 you so hard
EvieMiles
for saying it.. this is my feeling on it.. if you work hard at something to make the best product you can make.. I think no matter what it is.. your time is valuable
Nevermore
Also.. just because someone can make something faster doesnt mean it should be worth any less.. people take years to hone their skills.. no matter what the skill.
Nevermore
I do agree that I am more than willing to buy even clothing (and im a clothing maker mostly now) if its original mesh and it is visually apparent that the designer spent good solid time making sure
Nevermore
the textures were just as good as the mesh is..
Nevermore
Even if I may never wear it.. I consider it a treasure within my inventory.. thats how much I appreciate artists.. but
EvieMiles
is right.. there are also many mesh makers that take shortcuts on
Nevermore
texturework as well.. and I keep hoping that the texturework gets better as time goes along and it never does.. they primarily work off minor texturing and recoloring utilizing their bake layers
Nevermore
I dont blame them.. its just a hope I have for myself because I admire their mesh work but its not enough for me to take out my lindens and buy it on a personal level.. if that makes sense. I know they have a
Nevermore
share in the market too, just like we all do.