Le Rಠuge
So, in a war a citizen sides with the enemy, travels to one of their strongholds on foreign soil and is killed in an attack on the bunker by his own countrymen. I honestly don't see the problem with this.
Le Rಠuge
If in WWII an American had sided with the Nazi's and was killed while lending aid and comfort to the enemy would we even have thought twice about it?
Erik Kayo
i fully agree!
Le Rಠuge
It just seems to me that you have an implicit relinquishment of citizenship on the day you join forces with the enemy in an armed conflict against your county.
Erik Kayo
exactly!
Jakey
Kill them all...
(((Cajsa)))
Killed in combat against the enemy, not any trouble at all. I think the controversy is over a specific assassination order allowing a strike because of that person's presence. I still am not going to cry in my
(((Cajsa)))
beer, but it is troubling to simply order an individual's death without due process.
Le Rಠuge
I still have a hard time considering him a U.S. citizen. He gave that up and became and willingly became an enemy combatant against his country. He's owed no more due process than were an of the other
Le Rಠuge
Al-Qaeda operatives killed in other strikes.
Le Rಠuge
I know that he didn't explicitly give up his citizenship but I think it's logical do assume that upon joining a group whose stated mission is the destruction of your country you're not interested in being a
Le Rಠuge
citizen of that nation.
Merrick
I TOTALLY get what you're saying. BUT (<-- you knew that was coming) let me put this hypothetical to you: One day, a gov't decides to arrest all the queer citizens. A neighboring gov't says, "fuck no way!" ….
Merrick
.. and declares war on the anti-queer gov't and they go to war. Is it reason for the queers of the anti-queer gov't to join and fight with the neighboring army?
Merrick
treason*
Merrick
I only put it this way, because i think each case has to be seen individually.
Le Rಠuge
Yes, in the eyes of their home country they are traitors. I am not claiming that there may not be what most would see as a legitimate reason to turn on your country.
Merrick
That's cool. I wanted to see if you considered that there were "legitimate reasons" for turning on one's country.
Liq
Isnt siding with enemy combatants treason?
Liq
Im sure in almost any government if you side with the enemy of the state you are either a rebel or traitor.
Le Rಠuge
It really all hinges on the citizenship question and I don't think there is legal precedent for it, but I feel like there can be an implicit renouncement of citizenship.
Liq
(Or revolutionary, depends on what perspective you take lol)
Le Rಠuge
Once you become an enemy combatant against your country, regardless of your reasons, you really have to be aware that your former government might kill you.
Liq
Well for citizens that are initially foreign to be sworn as a citizen they pledge allegiance etc etc. Isnt that implied and revoked for anyone once they break their side of the bargain
Merrick
I agree. Thomas Jefferson would agree, too.
Jakey
If they join the enemy and help attack/plan to attack this country, they are traitors and should be killed..
Liq
I think theres a difference between sympathiser and active turncoat combatant though.
Le Rಠuge
Liq
: Definitely! We have the right to oppose the actions of our country through speech and peaceful protest but becoming an armed combatant is something altogether different.
Le Rಠuge
It will be interesting to see how this debate plays out but I have a hard time feeling that all the rights of citizenship should be afforded to an armed traitor on the field of battle.
(((Cajsa)))
I think the issue is what is "field of battle"
(((Cajsa)))
The war on terror has made the entire world a "field of battle" and that makes me uncomfortable. But, my concern is not so much for the traitors who take up arms against us, but concern about the errors and
Le Rಠuge
(((Cajsa)))
: Yes, it's another as of yet defined part of modern warfare where it's not nation against nation. That's another interesting twist in this debate.
(((Cajsa)))
mistakes that happen.
Le Rಠuge
For myself, I feel that anywhere Al-Qaeda sets up a base of operation they have established a valid military target/battlefield, but that's just one man's opinion.