Ken
[Sonic] So, over the last month some streamers I watch have been goin' through various games they missed out on. Unfortunately, by sheer happenstance, this ended up with the realization that over time they'd skipped on the WORST games. And it has reconfirmed a hot take of mine:

Sonic 06 is not as bad as the internet would have you believe.
Ken
Note, this does not mean it is GOOD.
Ken
It's incomplete.
Ken
Buggy.
Ken
The load times are among the worst of their generation.
Ken
But there is a kernel of a good game there, had Naka not fucked over the team working on it.
Ken
It's generally actually like. Okay. It's not the great and mighty disaster that needs to be flogged endlessly in every Sonic analysis ever made over the last 18 years, and it's not worth Sega having bent over backwards to flee away from it.
Ken
No, no, no.
boo(f)
I do think the Gigaboys came away hating Unleashed far more than it deserves but also, man.
Ken
Shadow? SECRET RINGS? RISE OF FUCKING LYRIC.
boo(f)
from like 2005 to 2009 sure was the darkest of dark times.
Ken
no i get why they came away hating on Unleashed. I actually felt it when I tried to replay it myself a couple years ago.
Ken
Unleashed begins with a decent first impression.
Ken
Werehog is kinda fun, if a lamer version of God of War, speed stages START fun.
Ken
But once you realize all those medals you sped by need to go back and be collected.
Ken
The BONKERS amount of medals you need to PROCEED in the game.
boo(f)
I stand by the opinion that the game would go up a whole letter grade without the medal hunting. But also 1) I don't think Bob and Dan ever figured out how to drift in the daytime stages, which uh. IS IMPORTANT. And 2) I don't think they EVER understood how the mission hubs worked.
Ken
The esoteric specific ways you have to gather them with the really fucking fiddly controls that don't want you to slow down in the speed stages.
Ken
Like. I get it. I stopped playing it and sold my Xbox because it was of no use to me anymore, lmao.
Ken
And yeah that's fair.
boo(f)
That said like.
Ken
But, that said?
Ken
Shadow and Secret Rings?
boo(f)
It's imo the best of the Worst Generation Of Sonic Games.
Ken
Goddamn, man.
boo(f)
Shadow and Secret Rings are just goddamn AWFUL, top to bottom
boo(f)
how did EITHER of those ship.
Ken
It was still refreshing to see someone approach Sonic 06 and walk away going. "It's fine, it's not the game you should be flogging in that generation, its problems aren't even fully the devs faults."
Ken
I finally did not feel fucking insane.
Ken
Because I have had this take forever.
Ken
But that brings me to my next point:
Ken
Sega should remaster/finish 06.
boo(f)
At the end of the day we should all be glad Yuji Naka, third-greatest gaming criminal, is finally in jail-
Ken
in 25 days they are putting out what is BASICALLY a sequel to Shadow the Hedgehog.
Ken
If they can do that
Ken
They can fix that fucking game.
Ken
THIRD greatest?
Ken
Like, I know Inafune is 1.
Ken
Who's 2?
boo(f)
Moleyneux.
Ken
Oh, yeah.
Ken
Yeah.
Ken
Actaully he may be 1.
boo(f)
Yeah I usually think about it as Moleyneux 1, Inafune 2, Yuji Naka 3.
Ken
Yeah that's fair.
Ken
And the thing about the Unleashed hubs is that they're not like. Very intuitive.

When I tried my replay a couple years ago, I vividly remember in the process of trying to unlock something in not-China, I lost all my lives in the hub and went into a stage with 0 lives.

So like.

I get it.
boo(f)
But yeah no it's like, genuinely impressive how many Sonic games came out in like, that small stretch and also how many of them were just. COMICALLY dogshit.
Ken
It does make me look back at Forces and go.

"Okay you weren't good. But. But. You were really just undercooked, there was far worse."
Ken
and they've clearly re-assessed themselves, they've gotten to show the execs the results of letting the development process actually finish.
Ken
So I'm like. Fairly confident Shadow Gens is gonna be pretty decent.
Ken
(I also came out with the reminder of a LOT of questions about the 4Kids localization process on Shadow............................)
DSTXC
looks at having gotten 06 running on rpcs3
DSTXC
looks at this
boo(f)
Heroes: 2003.
Advance 3: 2004.
Rush: 2005.
Shadow: 2005
'06: 2006.
Secret Rings: 2007.
Rush Adventure: 2007.
Chronicles: 2008.
Unleashed: 2008.
Black Knight: 2009.
boo(f)
Like, jesus christ.
DSTXC
yeah no surprise a LOT of Sonic is really just undercooked
Ken
The beginning and end of that list I like! But. Yeah.
boo(f)
Some franchises have a tailspin but when you look at what the entirety of the aughts were for Sonic after Adventure 2. Holy SHIT.
boo(f)
Yeah I think Heroes gets too much flak and Black Knight is actually like, decent to good.
Ken
Black Knight should not work as well as it does and Heroes is good, I'll still fight people on that.
boo(f)
But they're good book-ends for that reason.
Ken
yeah
Ken
Putting out like. 2 games a year is too much for ANY franchise, even if you have different studios.
Ken
Which 06 and Secret Rings didn't :-(
Ken
its what burnt out Mega Man
Ken
IN THE SAME ERA
Ken
EVEN WITH BETTER GAMES
boo(f)
yeaaaaah.
Ken
Anyway. Remaster 06. We have literal proof positive its stages can be good and fun as a SINGLE DUDE remade them from SCRATCH.
Ken
(Hell, they recently made a redesign of Elise that's more in line with the more anime-like design Maria is sporting now.)
Ken
https://images.plurk.com/60i88lvb4lrH3t823kL2BH.png WHY DID YOU MAKE THIS SEGA
Ken
That said rolling ALL the way back, you're right that Unleashed would absolutely go up, I think, multiple points without the medal hunting.

Unfortunately, it gates itself so severely by them that you can run up against that very early and then that's Just The Game for a good while afterwards.
Ken
If they ever remaster it, giving medals as rewards for stage scoring and lowering the amount by... a lot is something they need to do.
Ken
The way they're designed you should never have to be searching for those in the speed stages, to do otherwise was just a monumentally psychotic decision.
DehydratedWater
kinda hard agree on sonic 06 not really being that bad other than the part where it's broken. Like, the game frustrated me enough that I had to stop playing multiple times when I played it back when because I was about to scream at the TV. But that's not really design problems as just... game buggy and broken
Ken
Yeah. It's not finished! They didn't let them finish it.
Ken
And compared to Shadow and Secret Rings on EITHER SIDE of it.
Jack Raid
Mephiles is one of the best villains in the franchise
Jack Raid
full stop
Jack Raid
also re: no. 3 gaming criminal Naka, remember he forced Iizuka to work on Heroes levels SOLO while the man was sick and nearly half dead
Jack Raid
Iizuka-san is Sonic's strongest soldier
Ken
Something were now seeing that I no doubt expect Flynn is party to, is that there’s good ideas to be mined out of that era, they just need games they’re allowed to complete
Ken
Shadow Gens will be the first time he’s been allowed to write Mephiles. How wild is that?
Jack Raid
Indeed
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