Shibepire
so that's. what. a third subscription service in the past month?
Shibepire
anyway who else wants to burn youtube to the ground
Shibepire
i still haven't signed up for beacon but now im like. do...i want to 2nd try...man idk
Shibepire
i am just tired
espresso witch
?
Shibepire
espresso witch
: try guys are also launching a subscription service
espresso witch
oh lololol, of course they are
Shibepire
in addition to the one launched by watcher last month. and the one critrole launched like. last week
🎃😈Rubyvania😈🎃
big mood
🎃😈Rubyvania😈🎃
so many subscriptions, I cannot
espresso witch
after how watcher's announcement went down like a bag of bricks, I am a little surprised anyone else did that so soon after
espresso witch
You'd think they'd read the room
Shibepire
i mean at least try guys are still going to be posting on youtube, they're just publishing additional content on their sub channel
Shibepire
same for critrole
🎃😈Rubyvania😈🎃
Critical Role's fandom reception was very positive because nothing in their basic stuff changed, it was how Watcher presented their announcement
Shibepire
so neither of them are stepping in it quite as much as what watcher did
Shibepire
like both try guys an critrole were like. what we're currently doing isn't going anywhere, but if you subscribe to our service you will get more things
Shibepire
but also we're just reinventing cable
🎃😈Rubyvania😈🎃
right?? just cable again
espresso witch
Isn't that what patreons already are though? get some extra stuff? it just feels like soft launching a full exit to a paid model
✨ Skele-taur ✨
i wish they would talk and get in a nebula-like situation. like a co-op
vast energies
everyone funny just join dropout--
Shibepire
honestly i wish they'd just all get on dropout
Shibepire
like brennan's been on critrole, grant's on try guys now, the crossover is there
Shibepire
but anyway I do doubt that try guys and critrole will actually pull content from youtube
Spazztichero
I both support all of their desires to be less beholden to advertisers and also know I will not subscribe to all of the things all at once.
✨ Skele-taur ✨
i think it has more to do with not worrying as much if stuff does get demonetized
bed gothic
espresso witch
: I'm honestly guessing that Youtube has to have been fucking around so much that all the content creators who went in hard enough on Youtube as their livelihood to hire large teams are running up against extremely real walls of not being able to continue doing their thing with that risk in the bg any more
Spazztichero
But in that respect, it's so much better than cable for the moment because you can pick and choose ala carte rather than paying a bunch of money for a bunch of channels, only 20% of which you'll watch (if I'm being generous)
✨ Skele-taur ✨
espresso witch
: also try guys teased a big announcement in late may in their end of year video in december. i don't think they're in a position to read the room!
Spazztichero
I say for the moment because it's only a matter of time until some company comes along all like "Hey, here's a great NEW idea! Pay this one monthly sum for access to all of these streaming channels!"
Shibepire
bed gothic
: based on what I have heard from chatter on Drawfee/SSS streams it is exactly this. youtube has apparently recently been jerking folks around a lot with ad revenue
bed gothic
the fact they're all doing it at the same time and it's all [here is a very specific model of "content creation personalities started their own company and hired help" making decisions that would have had to have been in the works for months at the same time] reads to me as "they've been crunched in similar ways and are all only seeing one solution"
bed gothic
Shibepire
: I THINK WE ARE BOTH "LISTENS TO EVERY DRAWFEE/SSS STREAM" PEOPLE AND YEAH I'M DRAWING FROM THE SAME WELL THERE, reading between the lines Drawfee/SSS would not be doing as well as they were if they didn't have incredibly low overhead, a very small team, and a very very very sticky reliable patreon
bed gothic
and that was not the business model any of the companies that are making the subscription service switch had
Shibepire
lol yeah
Shibepire
i just remember that one time Jacob was talking about looking at their youtube metrics like "all the lines are going up except revenue"
bed gothic
yeah and they first started going "lmao. youtube bad" around a year ago, so the timing lines up for "ah, around a year ago Watchers and Try Guys also started looking at YouTube and seeing existential threat alarms go off at the headquarters of their charming content creation companies with 20+ people relying on them for payroll"
bed gothic
and like. dropout's right there. they for sure talk to each other
bed gothic
I also wish they would make a nebula though.
bed gothic
I see the business case and how Youtube fuckery must be at the root of it so clearly and yet my intense belief in how financially justified this must all be does not make me want to budget to pay for every individual channel on my DIY television network
vast energies
yeah that's the thing. i'm like i get it and i support you emotionally but i can't commit to supporting you financially
espresso witch
I'm 100% sure there's youtube fuckery, I totally think folks need to get paid, I just don't see the need for these totally separate 'services' - the fatigue is just VERY real
Shibepire
honestly i feel like part of the problem that might be preventing them from just going nebula is the fact that they all have like. full studios of people to support when nebula is more individual creator teams with small overhead ala drawfee
bed gothic
yeah
bed gothic
they may have truly backed themselves into corners there
Shibepire
like if critrole, watcher, dropout and try guys all went in on a hollywood studio and shared resources for post-production/sets/crews then it would be more feasible for them to share a network but there would need to be layoffs because of redundancies
Shibepire
and no one wants to lay folks off because that loses audience trust and they are all basically gliding on the whims of positive reputation
ᴄᴀᴘᴛᴀɪɴ ᴛᴇᴀᴠɪ
I feel like that would be kind of...against the point of what CR wants to do though, which is to have full control over what they make and how they operate.
Shibepire
yeah
espresso witch
It's hard, I don't know what the good answer is, I want to support people I think are doing good work, but I can't subscribe to 15 services
espresso witch
Most people can't
espresso witch
I feel like we're all at an impasse
ᴄᴀᴘᴛᴀɪɴ ᴛᴇᴀᴠɪ
I don't consume enough particular media for this to be an issue for me personally but I can see how it's frustrating
Shibepire
yes and no. i think it's only an impasse if they don't get enough people to buy into their service that they can't continue to offer things for free
お茶の時間にしおぜ？
Oh no....
お茶の時間にしおぜ？
Ugh. This really sucks for all of them.
Shibepire
which is, again, why the watcher move was real dumb
bed gothic
I do think there's potential for like, a 3rd party platform that handles streaming for all of them, but making that sustainable and attractive would be a real challenge
ᴄᴀᴘᴛᴀɪɴ ᴛᴇᴀᴠɪ
CR is at least very committed to keeping their primary content free and I don't see that changing
Shibepire
for CR as well at least the primary folks in their company also make money off of, yanno, voice acting
ᴄᴀᴘᴛᴀɪɴ ᴛᴇᴀᴠɪ
yeah it's not their only gig
Shibepire
which is what differentiates them from try guys and watcher
Shibepire
anyway. it's still exhausting. i blame youtube
bed gothic
I think it's easy to say Watcher's move was dumb in hindsight but I do also think they were trying to figure out "how do we make it really worthwhile for the people who pay us for this" and were maybe bitter at youtube and seduced by the idea of having complete control so Youtube wouldn't keep getting money from their stuff
bed gothic
it's easy to go "the people who explicitly avoided the reaction Watcher got definitely had the right idea from the beginning and did NOT learn from there what the audience reaction would be to tailor their own offering" lmao
bed gothic
RIP to them for going first
bed gothic
I also am exhausted and blame youtube 
Shibepire
oh i don't doubt that they were trying to figure out a very difficult problem, but I do also think that cutting into the value prop of their patreon by moving those benefits to their subscriber service and reducing their top of funnel viewer acquisition by slashing their free youtube content was objectively a dumb idea
お茶の時間にしおぜ？
I will... probably only pay for watcher. I like them more than try guys, but this sucks all around.
bed gothic
yeahhh ok i'll concede that point, their funnel management was not clever there
espresso witch
I think it also starts to FEEL the same, even if it isn't. Like we all know that youtube is making it hard for these talented creators and the teams they work with to make a living and we want to support them, but when I look in my hands at all my streaming services, hulu, netflix, watcher, tryguys, paramount, amc, youtube, critroll... it all runs together
Shibepire
yeah. it was not smart. but I also 100% agree that critrole and try guys probably saw the watcher reaction and took a good hard look at their own messaging
bed gothic
I think I'm most sympathetic to Watcher making mistakes because I watch all these content groups' "making of the business" and behind the scenes videos, sometimes in preference to their actual content, because of my personality defects, and I think Watcher by far had the most actual responsibility for decisionmaking concentrated onto one guy, of these groups
Shibepire
ugh, owch.
Shibepire
yeah I don't follow as much of watcher's behind the scenes stuff but that is. that's very rough
bed gothic
Try Guys and Critrole on camera talent seem pretty broadly involved in the business and mutually supportive while Watcher has been very "Ryan and Shane hate the business shit and kind of gave it all to Steven, not that they're DISCONNECTED but, there's a reason he's not making much content any more and it's because he's stepped up as That Guy"
Shibepire
guys...guys don't do that to Steven
bed gothic
and whenever you get a That Guy structure you're going to have more That Guy not seeing his blind spots unfortunately
bed gothic
(this is why Elon Musk is objectively stupid)
Shibepire
yeah, that's just. one, not fair to Steven and two, not a good waay to run a business
Hugh Following
jazza and matpat also have made some hahayoutube statements over the past year
Shibepire
whispers matpat
bed gothic
Shibepire
BECAUSE I KNOW YOU SHARE SOME OF MY PERSONALITY DEFECTS it's worth it to look up Making Of Watcher on their channel, it's VERY interesting to me now in retrospect
Hugh Following
matpat mentioned that creatora were explicitly told if they didn't do a certain number of shorts then their main channel content would start getting deprioritized
Shibepire
bed gothic
: I DO WANT TO TAKE A LOOK AT THIS NOW OUT OF MORBID CURIOSITY
Hugh Following
which. considering as far as I can tell no one likes making or watching shortS
Shibepire
i mean i do watch shorts but idk if i like watching shorts or shorts are just objectively an exploitative content format that preys upon our need for dopamine
Hugh Following
is like cool cool cool you're already screwing us as much as possible on ads and controlling the content we make but now we have to do [extra work for a thing no one wants] too?
bed gothic
youtube is the place where I go to watch 4 hour videos on why a hotel closed it doesn't need to be tiktok >(
Hugh Following
not surprised that YouTube is also crossing the More Hassle Than Is Sustainable threshold for a lot of creator
Shibepire
bed gothic
: jenny nicholson solidarity nod
bed gothic
Making Watcher in Chronological Order - YouTube
Shibepire
bless
mehr
All of this information is sadly nit a surprise, especially with the bit about YouTube shorts
mehr
I get the feeling YT is probably being pressured by, uh. External interests who wanna shut down TikTok, also.
mehr
Too bad I hate that format and how it's bleeding into every social/multi media platform... Also ffs I'm not paying for another subscription no matter how much I like creators, I'm already debating whether dropout is worth it and it WOULD be nice if they'd consider partnering up
ᴄᴀᴘᴛᴀɪɴ ᴛᴇᴀᴠɪ
the bleed of short form and vertical videos is truly just so irritating. Everyone trying to copy TT and ruining what their platforms are actually good at (looking at you, Instagram!!)
Many mistakes
i have so much sympathy for the Watcher guys, honestly
Many mistakes
but of all the possible mergers, I would most like to see Drawfee move over to Dropout. The comedic branding is not dissimilar, they've been under the same umbrella before, and Julia is going to die if she doesn't get some administrative support
Many mistakes
Drawfee/SSS has been doing so well for themselves BUT THE YOUTUBE FUCKERY LOOMETH
ᴄᴀᴘᴛᴀɪɴ ᴛᴇᴀᴠɪ
This tweet came across my feed just now, could be something to keep an eye out for :
Lucía Lobosvilla (@LuciaLobosvilla) on X
ᴄᴀᴘᴛᴀɪɴ ᴛᴇᴀᴠɪ
screencap of top level
screencap of top level
Shibepire
ooh. please