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I want more people to talk to about my current hyperfixation so this is a plurk inviting you to play some traditional roguelikes
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two in particular! but if you're not familiar with the subgenre
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but you know roguelikes? this is Rogue
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an ancient game from around 1980 that (more or less) invented the concept of procedurally-generated levels
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this led to the bottomless genre that pervades Steam today of games with short runs and randomized content
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but between the two, we had the old school roguelikes. games with no graphics about going into a dungeon and getting fucked by deathtraps
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I'll give a genre overview with a more modern example Brogue
I'll give a genre overview with a more modern example Brogue
Gabiluzbad
Rogue is not a roguelike because it can’t be “like” itself
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Here's the deal with these games, the actual big distinguishing point between them and the modern roguelike: There's no meta-progression.
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Every run starts with exactly the same spread of probabilities of what you'll encounter and what you can do.
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They are very hard and unforgiving.
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But one thing does change between runs:
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You.
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Traditional Roguelikes are the ultimate example of games run on player knowledge.
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You don't get stronger, you get smarter. You learn properties of items and monsters and you learn strategies and tricks.
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You learn what the most random deathtraps are, how to anticipate them and how to plan around them.
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And each time, you trend a little closer to reaching the end.
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A good old school roguelike run makes you feel like a genius, while also being terrified because you could die at any second.
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So, let's talk about Brogue specifically
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Brogue is a streamlined, modern (relatively) accessible version of Rogue, the OG
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It has the same game structure - you start on floor 1 of the dungeon, then your goal is to make it to floor 26, retrieve the Amulet of Yendor, then escape to the surface.
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You won't achieve this. You will die in the dungeon. This is the default state.
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Don't think of it as a game where you Succeed or Fail, think of it like an arcade game. Shoot for a personal best on depth or gold.
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If you've previously only seen through floor 8, and you die on floor 11, that was a big success!
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But here's how much shit Brogue removes to purify the dungeon crawl.
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There's no EXP, no character level.
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There are only two stats, Health and Strength.
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You don't gain more powerful by defeating enemies, you get more powerful by finding loot. Potions of Strength raise your STR, Potions of Life raise your max HP (and fully heal you), Scrolls of Enchanting improve your equipment.
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You gotta identify those and scour the dungeon for them as you descend, finding better gear and enchanting it until you have enough strength to wield it
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in Rogue, combat was mostly just "bump into a monster to attack it" but Brogue has a ton of weapon types that all function differently
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spears hit two enemies in a piercing line, axes hit everything around you at once, rapiers do low damage but attack twice per turn and give you a lunch attack that does bonus damage, et cetera
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beyond that you're finding piles of unidentified potions, scrolls, wands, staves, and rings
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many of these are good, many of them will fuck you
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equipment can be cursed! once you put on cursed equipment you can't take it off again. figuring out how to get rid of it is left as an exercise for the reader.
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weapons and armor have strength requirements, but enchanting it increases its power AND reduces its required strength. also, you CAN wield things that your str is too low for, but doing so will make it less effective. figure out when it's worth wielding an overpowered weapon with low stats.
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potions can be beneficial or harmful! don't just drop harmful potions. you can throw them at enemies to deliver their effects at a safe distance.
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staves do a variety of cool shit and have a handful of charges, which recharge slowly over time. wands are like staves but they don't recharge. charms just have one effect and a cooldown period.
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scrolls are oneshot effects like potions, they can't be thrown but have fewer trap options
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in the early game, you can identify things by just using them and seeing what happens! if this kills you, hey, it was the early game. later on, you want to be careful. there's a keybinding to check all unidentified items in the game, to judge your chances that something will be a mistake to use blind.
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there are traps, which can be found by searching! if you see suspicious gas vents in the floor, search to find pressure plates that will send unsavory gases out of them. expert play: you can trigger traps at a distance by throwing items onto the plate and turn them against the monsters.
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gases are a whole thing in Brogue - the creator was clearly very proud of their gas cloud dynamics code.
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basically it comes down to:
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this game is very simple, but simultaneously astoundingly deep.
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it is addictive. you will die and then feel compelled to get back in there and die again in another, funnier way.
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A successful run is under an hour.
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Brogue fucking rules. It's a pure dungeon crawl experience that will hand you your ass over and over with a fun ratio of dying to luck or your own mistakes.
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And, most of those luck deaths were more preventable than you think.
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SO, with that pitch: If you're gonna play one of these two games, play that one. That's the one for sane people.
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Brogue
You can get it here!
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But if you try it out, and find that you enjoy these a little too much
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then come here, into this dark alleyway, so I can hook you up with the real shit.
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this is ADOM.
this is ADOM.
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oh, Brogue is free by the way. This is about free games you can play for free.
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Ancient Domains of Mystery. Heralding from 1994, one of the old guard.
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ADOM is different from a lot of its siblings and cousins in that it isn't just a dungeon. It has a whole world map!
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There are towns, dungeons, random overworld encounters, mysterious death castles
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Named consistent NPCs! Quests!
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You play as an adventurer headed to the Drakalor Chain, a mountainous region from which the foul radiation of Chaos is corrupting the world. Your objective is to find the source and kill it.
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This means finding the Caverns of Chaos, gathering the power to survive them, then exploring procedural dungeons too greedily and too deeply.
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It's less flashy than Brogue (despite neither game having graphics) but it has a TON more content
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The world is vast and complex and filled with strange things
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It is also WAY more complicated than Brogue
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There are dozens of classes and races, like 20 equipment slots, a vast and intricate magic system
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you can plant and farm herb gardens
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eating monster corpses is a huge and important subsystem
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dungeon oddities like magic pools and treasure vaults and special unique dungeon floors ranging in evocative concept from "The Living Forest" to "Big Room"
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(One of those things will fuck you up more. It's the Big Room.)
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There are underground civilizations, countless obscure sub-dungeons scattered aroudn the world
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the run-destroying death pyre that is the Tower of Eternal Flames
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an incredibly deep and powerful religion system
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multiple alignment paths that grant or remove access to quests or game features
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skills, talents, class abilities, racial features
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time-sensitive secrets, like six possible endings
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a Corruption system where the spread of Chaos gradually mutates your character as you dive deeper towards the source
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ADOM is a fucking MASSIVE game
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and here's the thing:
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I know a ton about it and am happy to tell people about it
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So you have a secret weapon going into this one and it's me rambling about optimization
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and secrets and quirks
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it is, like Brogue, all about player decisions and knowledge
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and luck
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player knowledge is layered, as you learn deeper and deeper secrets
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things like "Potion of invisibility make monsters not see you and that's good" ->
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"Shopkeepers aren't fooled by invisibility so don't try and rob them with it" ->
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"If a potion of invisibility is cursed, it will blind you instead" ->
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"If a potion of invisibility is cursed, you can throw it at monsters to blind them (and this works on bosses)"
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I fucking DRANK this game for YEARS
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I've beaten it ONCE. It's harder than Brogue.
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But man. It's so mean but it's so compelling once you start to unpeel it.
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Someone out there... please... play roguelikes...
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so we can talk about them........
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Brogue has an easy mode now even
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ADOM has... a tutorial! THat's new
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The Official Ancient Domains Of Mystery (ADOM) Homep... Oh, ADOM is here. There's a deluxe version on Steam and a graphical version but imo just get the text version from this page and you're fine
Love Snake Kaja
I mainlined this kinda of game back when I had basically zero money to spend on games
Love Snake Kaja
Because those games tended to be free
Love Snake Kaja
I've never won one of those games (aside from Tales of Maj'Eyal but that's way easier)
Love Snake Kaja
But I've sure had a lot of fun
Love Snake Kaja
And frustration but in the fun way if that makes sense
Quinneapolis
yeah
Quinneapolis
absolutely
Love Snake Kaja
ADOM is honestly a game for sickos who want to dig deep into the genre but that's part of what makes it great
Quinneapolis
"ADOM is honestly a game for sickos" you could stop there and it'd still be true
Love Snake Kaja
Haha, yeah
Gabiluzbad
I'll +1 recommend Brogue
Gabiluzbad
I will NOT recommend ADOM but I will absolutely watch with a big bucket of popcorn if you do start playing it
skerple
I am absolutely not hard enough to do ADOM but it does sound intriguingly deep
skerple
isn't ADOM the one with an important NPC that will die as soon as you talk to him unless you give him an amulet of life saving first
Quinneapolis
yeah that's ADOM
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he's only important for the ultra endings though
Gabiluzbad
Brogue is an excellent appetizer for the genre
Echo
Please tell me about the herb gardens.
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so sometimes in ADOM - it's fairly rare but guaranteed in a couple places - you find herb bushes growing
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you can harvest herbs from them and they have various effects, some of them very bad and some of them VERY good
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but after a couple harvests, a given herb bush will wither up and die
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however, on a big global timer, sometimes herb bushes will grow and die across a level
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based on the rules of Conway's game of life
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and which herbs are produced by a bush is based on its coordinates on the map, so it's possible to coordinate and create elaborate herb generation patterns to get huge amounts of free food and healing and poison/sickness cures
Echo
Ooh, sweet.