Whatson
https://images.plurk.com/4chjfgfVtJqfoxYK1oXi6w.jpg https://images.plurk.com/6aqYzNpjxsg31ZJrOsplFk.jpg did god let satan's revolt happen? If he's all-mighty, why didn't he stop it himself. why did he make his son do it. if they can't die anyways and heal all wounds, what is the point of swords and spears
Whatson
Why are Satan and the revolvers so inept? Why is this so empty and vapid?
Whatson
He takes pages to describe welcoming a guest for tea, or jesus shoving the entire host of hell out of heaven with a chariot
Whatson
It's swollen and obfuscated with useless words
Whatson
And don't tell me "it's old literature." They most definitely had good literature. This gives me newfound appreciation for Shakespeare which came out decades before this and is definitely good stuff
Whatson
He didn't have the desire to force the apostates out of heaven himself, instead letting his angels suffer, yet immediately after decides to create earth
Whatson
Also let just one human make his race and force all that man's children to incest themselves into being
Whatson
why bother making mankind on earth and intend them to join heaven anyways
Exacerangutan
something something mysterious ways
Whatson
Why not make them in heaven to begin with? Why deign them suffer?
Whatson
WHY INTEND EARTH TO JOIN TOGETHER WITH HEAVEN, WHY MAKE THEM SEPARATE
Whatson
I'm mad
Exacerangutan
(tbh I don't remember nearly enough details of Milton to offer anything about subtext)
CChuuni
you should also read Noragami now
Whatson
You. Have you been following my suffering through this?
CChuuni
yeah
Whatson
you let me suffer in silence? Since the beginning?
CChuuni
>>
Whatson
didn't even warn me
Whatson
"The female bee, that feeds her husband drone" excuse the fuck me
Whatson
This is stupid. Mr Faulty, I no want to work here anymore.
Whatson
So stupid. They fucking warn them not to eat from the tree, and about the "enemy" that would tempt them. Paradise was guarded by cherubim but still satan gets in, and Eve is like "lol okay"
Whatson
Worse of all God "knew" all of this would happen
Whatson
What is the fucking point
Exacerangutan
(I mean that's all in Genesis anyways, can't really blame that on Milton)
Exacerangutan
like there are lines in Genesis that make it sound almost like the expulsion from Eden was a political gesture to reassure the angels or smth
Whatson
Oh. Disappointment
Whatson
https://images.plurk.com/2p2XVA7D3prCS0zvDHKHPv.jpg https://images.plurk.com/3iJYV5igZdawyz4bpQuWa9.jpg this book HAS moments, and potential. It could have been great if he didn't latch on to classical stuff so hard. I like this part, where god tells adam he too is the only one of his kind, where is his partner?
Exacerangutan
Adam: I'm lonely with only like sheeps and dogs and bugs to talk to
God: mood
Angels: ...hey! I mean, technically not wrong, but still!
CChuuni
lol
Whatson
"Such ambush, hid among sweet flowers and shades, waited with hellish rancor imminent"
Whatson
It does have style and is capable of great stuff
Whatson
But the content is inherently bad and Holly shit fuck Eve
Whatson
"Or is it envy? and can envy dwell in heavenly breasts?"
Let's find out. CChuuni is it true?
Whatson
Seriously fuck Eve
Whatson
She might be the first yandere. She decides to feed Adam the fruit when she pictures him living with another Eve in paradise
Whatson
I can't get over that he knew, God knew. He knew the guard of the garden wouldn't be enough to stop Satan, yet whatever bro.
Whatson
Humans were set to fail.
Exacerangutan
"Actually human evil is because WWWOOOMMMEENNN!!!" is not exactly a unique reading of Eden unfortunately
Exacerangutan
but yeah there's a reason I have some beef with the conventional readings
Whatson
oh yes, screw Milton too. "Eve" here is only an extension of him, the creator
Exacerangutan
surely though this is the only example of sexism in 17th century Christian biblical exegesis
Exacerangutan
iirc Milton deserves some credit at least for revolutionizing the bible-as-literature framework and exploring some of the superhuman biblical characters as characters in a way that wasn't really done very seriously before... ...but his takeaways are overall pretty orthodox.
Exacerangutan
I'm pretty sure his most out-there idea was "OK but what if Satan is bad for, like, comprehensible reasons, and not just to be muwahaha evil for the fun of it?"
Whatson
Right, Satan as a character was the best thing here, though it ultimately falls flat and his revolt is bumbling
Exacerangutan
his character definitely aren't as humanist as Shakespeare's, but he was also starting from material where there's... basically zero characterization at all and what exists isn't exactly super consistent
Whatson
Right
Exacerangutan
like prior to Milton, God is "hrgh rawrgh I am jealous and wrathful except when I'm not because uwu my son but I'll still send you to be tortured for eternity if you annoy me" and that's it
Exacerangutan
that's all the psychology of God you get
Exacerangutan
(at least in terms of well-known things, there's probably some material that never really circulated just because we know there were a lot of priests with ideas that the church either didn't care about or explicitly rejected and banned as heresy, and anything with a whiff of humanism tends to go in that pile)
Whatson
Which is weird, considering love being thrown around
Exacerangutan
I mean love is definitely a major fixture of the theology of most canonical versions of Jesus (i.e. with the exception of a few passages where he kinda sounds like a tremendous asshole) but squaring that with the politically expedient "do what I say OR ELSE" and "I have never been wrong about anything ever" frameworks requires some adjustments
Exacerangutan
(in fairness, Christianity didn't remotely invent either of those, but before the alignment of the Church with the Roman Empire, it had been difficult for a single religious organization to approach Roman Imperial levels of centralized authoritarianism)
Exacerangutan
like, the priesthood of Israel could try their best, but afaik they were rarely more than another political faction the kings had to compromise with
Whatson
"God declaring that the entrance of Satan could not be by them prevented"
Whatson
he fucking knew
Whatson
"For what can escape the eye of god-all seeing"
Whatson
FUCK THIS
Exacerangutan
rofl
Exacerangutan
i mean, welcome to the difficulties of mainstream theology
Whatson
WHY PURPOSELY SET THEM UP TO FAIL
Exacerangutan
Eden is one of many stories that require either wild mental acrobatics or quite a bit of creative extrapolation and interpolation to resolve the issues of theodicy
Whatson
Okay, Adam's miserable soliloquy is really good
Whatson
What the hell did snakes and women do to this guy
Exacerangutan
rofl
Exacerangutan
I mean... again, he's just writing fanfic, he didn't make up the setting.
Whatson
That's what CC said! it's true
Exacerangutan
rofl yeah there's some Stuff in there
CChuuni
100%
Whatson
my only excuse is that I read this because it was big name and mentioned a lot to be a "classic"
Whatson
I guess it will also make Shakespeare all that more enjoyable when I get around to reading his anthology
CChuuni
lol
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