Quinneapolis
[youtube holes] let's talk about Duchamp's The Fountain
Quinneapolis
https://images.plurk.com/7JxgYLkHjq3lXAuaddWrvl.png this highly divisive art piece is a mass market urinal, rotated 90 degrees and signed
Quinneapolis
nothing else was done
Quinneapolis
and it's an ingenious, necessary seminal work of art
Quinneapolis
my biggest proof for this is the mere fact that people are still discussing it 106 years later
Quinneapolis
but let's talk about what Fountain is saying
Quinneapolis
to put it in the context of a literal meta-conversation;
Quinneapolis
Fountain: I am a work of art.
Quinneapolis
Viewer: You aren't art. You're a urinal on its side.
Quinneapolis
Fountain: Why isn't that art?
Quinneapolis
Viewer: Because art is transformative. You haven't been transformed.
Quinneapolis
Fountain: I was rotated and signed. Isn't that a transformation?
Quinneapolis
Viewer: No, it's not enough. That's too minor to count.
Quinneapolis
Fountain: Where's the cutoff, then? How much do you need to transform something before it's art?
Quinneapolis
Fountain: Painters paint with brushes and on canvases that were made by others, using paint that they didn't mix. Are paintings therefore illegitimate?
Quinneapolis
Viewer: There has to be a line, because otherwise, anything anyone does would be art.
Quinneapolis
Fountain: Isn't it?
Quinneapolis
the terrible secret in the heart of the urinal is that everything everyone has ever created is art
Quinneapolis
art can't be contained
Quinneapolis
it can't be defined
Quinneapolis
and it can't be gatekept
Quinneapolis
and that's a huge message for one rotated toilet
Quinneapolis
this is what I mean when I say that gender presentation is art
Quinneapolis
it's made of external concepts but it's something you made
Flash Bastard
Duchamp was also in the Dada movement, and Dadaism is 'because Fuck You, that's why.'
birthday snake
Quinneapolis : have you seen David Cronenberg's quote on his view of trans people
birthday snake
basically "I don't fully understand but I understand that these are people putting their all into what's basically an art, and I respect that"
Quinneapolis
makes sense
A Grinning DM
It’s worth noting that some art historians contest whether DuChamp actually created the fountain or just accepted credit for it when the real artist wouldn’t
A Grinning DM
But the message, either way, is important, and when I learned about it in art school it transformed the way I look at all art
A Grinning DM
So I’d argue it’s more transformative than most other pieces of art I have encountered
A Grinning DM
But you may wish to refer to it as Freytag-Loringhoven / DuChamp’s The Fountain , though that is admittedly unwieldy
Quinneapolis
noted
birthday snake
this piece of art also works as a handy dandy fascist detector
birthday snake
just show it to someone and see if they get irrationally angry
Quinneapolis
fascists are TERRIFIED of modern art
birthday snake
I know and it's beautfiul
birthday snake
*beautiful
birthday snake
they also get irrationally afraid and angry about splatter paintings
birthday snake
which on top of being art I actually do think look nice
birthday snake
and that one exhibit that's a banana taped to a wall
birthday snake
"you can't just call everything art"
bitch, what's the guy who makes my sandwich at a subway called
thetaClysm
i can and i will
birthday snake
"art should be nice to look at"
yeah if the place you're putting it is your grandma's living room, sure
PolyaMixedNuts
I saw it in the Pompidou Centre as part of an exhibit in... May 2004, I think? that changed the way I think about art exhibits permanently (in a good way)
PolyaMixedNuts
it was that, The Treachery of Images (or a copy or print thereof), and... a red snow shovel suspended by a wire from the ceiling?
PolyaMixedNuts
and the way the PROGRESSION of them was lined up was such a one-two-three punch about "what is art?" that I've never forgotten it, & also, the staging of an exhibit is itself art
A Grinning DM
The two art pieces that most shook my early understanding of art were The Fountain and The Treachery of Images
EsperBot
I don't find intra-artist debates about the nature of art very interesting so pieces like the fountain don't hold my interest
EsperBot
but fascists fucking hate it so there must necessarily be something of value to it
Lightning Bolt
I remember reading a martin gardner article about various kinds of art in this vein
Lightning Bolt
like one that was just several bricks arranged into a cube
Lightning Bolt
And then once when the artist was going to display it at another museum and didn't make it in time the museum directors assembled their own brick cube and he got mad and called it inauthentic
Lightning Bolt
I remember seeing one of his works that was made of a bunch of metal panels assembled on the floor
Lightning Bolt
i actually stepped on it by accident
skerple
I remember a tumblr post about someone who decided to have a bit of a laugh at an art museum by putting a pair of glasses down on the floor as if they were an exhibit
skerple
and the guests duly treated the glasses as if they were an exhibit
skerple
and the post was like "congratulations, you did art"
skerple
sigh, of course I can't find the post now that I look for it but here's A post Teen Leaves Pair Of Glasses On Gallery Floor; Everyo...
skerple
it was intended as a prank and a joke at the expense of modern art. but the joke's on them because literally what is that if not art
RobotApocalypse
any creation that is made with the intent of inspiring feeling in someone else is art by default, that's my stance
RobotApocalypse
if you sign a urinal and stick it in a gallery because you want to make people think about the nature of art, that's art
A Grinning DM
There is art in everything, even if the intent wasn’t there
RobotApocalypse
yeah, other stuff can be art, but if it's made with intent then there's no debate imo
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