Ok I need to know about quinceañeras. Just watched a show where the daughter is having hers and they went to church. Is it a religious thing? I thought it was just a bigass party. Plus her dad comes and he brings her shoes while she’s sitting on the throne. Like Cinderella he puts the shoes on her. Is this a tradition? What’s that about? What else happens?

Tell me everything! aliciachenaux I know you know. Beyoncé Enjoyer any info?

I know the shoes is a big deal ritual where she is stepping into adulthood kinda thing.

How Quinceañeras Work | HowStuffWorks

I think the traditions are very specific to different cultures. So my BIL's family does not do Quince's really so maybe its not as big a deal in El Salvador as other places? Maybe because they were so poor its not a tradition? Not too sure

you should be able to have one regardles of how young you are

From what I gather, quinces are less formal in most Latin American countries than they are in the US. Although they're not as religious here as they were in the past.

Chestnut : one of my coworkers was telling me about her quince the other day and her family is from El Salvador so that might just be your BIL's family

Part of Navajo girls Kinaaldá involves them doing a really arduous RUN through the desert for a long distance sometimes, in full traditional garments.

The Kinaaldá is a 4 part coming of age ceremony, like the quinceañeras)

Beyoncé Enjoyer That makes total sense. Carlos' family lived in a one room house with a dirt floor - all 14 of them. His parents didn't have a wedding until decades after they were together because they didn't have the $$ to throw a proper wedding. Eventually the kids put on a beautiful wedding for their parents once everyone was in the US.

So, a quince wasn't really on the radar. Some of his nieces have had them but they were pretty low key compared to other people we know.

Max Graf : the boys do a similar version too. I knew several Navajo of course but the tribe I worked with were the Yavapai-Apache. The guberment in its infinite wisdom rounded up two warring tribes and forced them together on the rez. Of course over the years there was much intermarriage and integration but many still have a very deep seated...

identification with one or the other tribe. My friends mom was Apache with 1/4 Yavapai and she would claim that if she could drain the Yavapai out of her blood she gladly would. That’s how deep the hatred for each other was. Kinda like forcing Nazis and Jews to live as neighbors. No wonder they’re pissed off and don’t trust “Uncle Sam”.

It was definitely interesting learning about their culture and history first hand from the elders and then current tribal leaders and members.

The UN did force the Israelis and Palestinians to live together. And let's think about how well that worked out. Colonization is just GREAT innit?

Chestnut : yup, so many of these over history. Hopefully we can get better about not doing this. Then again, there’s less open land to “conquer” now.

Chestnut : one of my main reasons for cutting contact with my bro in Jerusalem is because his thoughts on Palestinians. He believes that every single one of them crossing the border daily into Israel for work, school whatever, are only doing so to plant bombs and plot how to kill Israelis. He said that the only “good” one is a dead one.

I’ve got no space in my life for that kind of thinking. He can fuck off forever.

Meanwhile they’re usually the ones doing the hard labor and construction on a majority of building sites over there. They’re the “cheap” (read exploited) labor for that area. Makes me angry. Yak was a big pro Palestinian supporter and I always loved that about him. He never met or spoke with my brother but he said my bro is lucky they didn’t.

He’d rip him a new one no problem. I almost wish he could’ve. Now that dad’s gone I’ve got no reason to communicate with him anymore. He’s got my contact info if he wants to ever reach out, but I know he won’t. Fine with me.

I think the bad feelings are justifiable and go in both directions. Certainly the Israeli state behaves in problematic ways regularly. When I was in Israel I saw a lot that taught me there are terrorist Palestinians as well. It is historically messy, currently messy, and until there is a free Palestine it won't be better.

I learned a lot when I lived in Israel, not all of it pretty. Everyone is right, and everyone is wrong too.

Chestnut : exactly. I was there three times and Yak lived there for a while too. He did the whole kibbutz thing in his late youth and then his eyes were opened to the insanity that exists over there. That’s when he met some of his lifelong friends and the started down his “hippie” days path. LOL I’ve got great photos of him from then.

My hippie husband and also right before and after that period. The short hair and camera was before Israel and the sax was after.

The last one is the chappelle in southern France where he lived a big chunk of his adult life during his hanging with musician days. It was like a giant hippie flop house back then.

It’s gorgeous there! I was lucky we got to go together a few times. That’s where I took a majority of his ashes too. It was the place that he had the best years of his life.

He met so many people back then including Golda Mair and Moshe Dayan. He actually saw Dayan without the eyepatch too. He only wore it in public. Golda had a crush on him because he would always light her cigarettes. She told him that he was cute and it was a shame that he hung with such a rebel crowd. LOL

She said, “what’s a nice Jewish boy like you doing with these people.”