[local] So there's a rock stuck in a pipe and the Lowell Makes people are all trying to figure out the cheapest and easiest way to get it out and it's fascinating to be on this email chain. EDIT: THEY GOT IT OUT
Body: I have a water well on my property that I’ve never been able to use due to the pump not functioning, power wires to it being cut and the water line to the house not being connected to anything.
But the biggest reason that I haven’t been able to solve myself is a large rock being lodged about 3.5ft down into the well pipe preventing me from removing and replacing the old pump. I’ve called several well companies and experts and none of them are even willing to entertain the idea of removing the rock, let alone coming out to take a look at it.
I know I have to get something thin, yet strong on either side of the rock and secured underneath. I’m thinking some thick chains with some sort of hook on the end. Then up top there needs to be some sort of lever pivoting off the top of the pipe to yank upwards on the chains, maybe 1 at a time.
Maybe even spray some wd40 degreaser and/or lithium grease all around the sides of the rock. One of the challenges will be to not let the rock fall down deeper if it were loosened.
I don’t think I’m capable of designing and building this solution by myself so I’m looking for some help if anyone is interested in the project.
I’ve lived here going on 6 years without it so no immediate rush, but getting it out before winter would allow me to schedule the new pump to be installed in the spring.
OP: Eric im not sure sure even a shop vac would be strong enough for the time it might take to work it loose. Not to mention the big hose would certainly hinder working on loosening the rock.
OP: I have a very good plumber friend who doesn’t have a clue how to get it out. The firecracker idea goes back to what one of the “well experts” suggested which is to “blast” it and pump out the debit at the bottom. Neither of which are within my capabilities and is going to cost a lot of money.
Jeremiah: I’d try construction adhesive on the end of a “stick” since the rock appears to have enough clean surface area. But something more than just a stick…like a plunger with mods:
- Cut the thin most flexible rubber out of the bottom of the plunger leaving the more rigid cup. - Fill the cup with construction adhesive. - Place it on the rock. - Allow adhesive to cure (protect from the elements as necessary, or time appropriately for this time of year with some nice days left).
If you choose a basic plunger which will also likely work, consider using a hose clamp on the threaded interface to strengthen it…and obviously give it a test pull.
Might also consider using construction adhesive on that threaded interface. I personally would like the ability to remove the handle (by turning counter-clockwise) so it’s not an obstacle should this not work for some reason. I’m pretty sure it will work.
Jeremiah: Always nice to have a safety method to keep the rock from falling down into the pipe more, or even a backup plan. Think along the lines of a fluke anchor which slides past the rock while collapsed, and then deploys or expands after passing the rock creating a horizontal platform to bring underneath the rock and lift it out.
Can’t be the one attached below but a long flat bar, barn door style hinge (mounted to the wide side) and a couple lengths of paracord or small chain will get you pretty close. All hardware store items…
David: It looks like you have some clearance on either side. How about this ..... Fish some kind of mesh/netting down one side, and a long road with a hook down the other. Catch the mesh underneath the rock with the hook, fashioning a net. Pull up from there to remove the rock.
Ben: If it’s a straight shot , Probably best bet is a post hole digger setup. Get two rods with curved plates welded on the end slide down squeeze and lift.
John: Thinking outside the pipe. If it's only 3 1/2 feet down, what if you dig a hole next to the pipe, about 5 feet down. Cut the pipe below the rock then just put a 5' piece of pipe back on.
The post hole digger should work, but could get tricky if you need to open the sticks wider at the top of the hole.
You might only need the mouth to be 6 in wide at the bottom, but the sticks might need to be a foot or more apart at the top to open the mouth wide enough.
Dana: Is it possible to dig down to where the rock is stuck? Maybe 5 ft. Then drill below the rock and insert a rod. After which cut the pipe off and splice in a new one
Andrew: I second John and Dana's idea. Digging down, opening the pipe.
If you could drill into the rock from above with a long drill bit extension (making sure this could not fall down the well), you might be able to epoxy something to the rock, and then pull it up, but it would be tricky.
I wouldn't use anything like grease or something that might taint the well.
Also, some sort of pantograph gripper might work, something that would allow you to grip the rock in that narrow space. It might look like this but with a gripper at the end.
You want the corner of the L hinged so it will fold up in one direction but not the other. Hopefully you can push this past the rock and then lift it up.
(Check whether there is space around the rock before doing so)
I'm confused why plumbers who you would think would know how/be able to replace the pump can't just. pull out the pump. this really seems like something they should be equiped to handle
Jay: Great suggestions so far. I don’t have any experience with wells, but I have to wonder if that is the only rock in the well. It might be that it is being supported by many other rocks, and not merely wedged where it is.
It sounds like there has been a great deal of work done to decommission this water source. Perhaps using a long scope to take a peak beyond it would be worthwhile? Good luck.
OP: One thought was to lower a steel chain then fish it ’round with a magnet, but as Jay suggested, if there are more rocks below it, another approach may be required
David: Another dumb idea.... Get something you can inflate on the end of a hollow tube, fish it past the rock, then inflate it and pull out. As long as it's rugged enough not to pop, it should pull up the rock.
OP: Ben it's a 6" diameter well pipe that leads to a water well. (hence the topic name)
I don't think there are any other rocks underneath this one as I can see on either side it's completely black when shining a light. When cleaning the other rocks and debris off the top of it, I heard the smaller bits falling down and splashing in the water below.
So, I know I can cut the top of the pipe off and extend it. I don't have the capabilities to do that and I'm sure it's not cheap to have someone else do it.
I want to be clear on what it will take to remove this rock. It's not just sitting there. It's lodged pretty good. It's not a matter of just getting underneath it and lifting. It's going to need a lot of upward force to dislodge it.
Jay I don't think this was done to decommission the well. The previous owners weren't all that bright and had children that abused the hell out of the entire property. My guess is they toss it down there
Mike the problem with using a magnet is the pipe is made of steal.
David yeah, I was thinking of acquiring an inflatable pipe plug to inflate underneath it to catch it if o do get it dislodged and it wants to fall deeper.
As noted above, no inflatable device on earth is going to dislodge it with how stuck it is.
Ben: I was asking about the size - I’d size because people mix up tube vs pipe and what the sizes means and what the real size is for Id and od when measured.
Depending how friendly you are with the people next door etc I have a way to break the rock up...
Chain down one side, a grabber hook to catch it with on the other (will take some work and luck), and a winding reel over the top of the hole. Maybe a magnet exposed on only one side will help get it down the side wall of the pipe, instead of a hook.
Jim: Sounds like someone put in some effort into preventing you from using this well. Maybe they just wanted to make sure no one fell in (Page Not Found | abc13.com I suggest you get that water tested once you have access.
OP: Jim I will, though it’s only going to be used for watering a garden and lawn and an emergency backup. Though, I do live on a culdesac where all the houses and wells were built around the same time and all the other wells are fine.
As mentioned above, the previous owners were complete idiots and abused the hell out of this entire property.
Dana: Is it a cast iron pipe? If so rent a tool that is designed to snap the pipes perimeter. It is a ratcheting tool. Makes a clean break. If steel then a rotary cutoff saw will do the trick. Again rentable. Same goes for power drills and bits
Eric: What's your budget? Is the rock fixed there? this is an expensive idea (maybe) i'm going to say $200 but that could change depending where you get stuff, buying a hammer drill is the most expensive but you can rent those if needed.
I would say using a long drill bit for concrete/stone ( I saw some 39 inch ones on amazon for $33 for a 3/4 inch dia which would be good so you may need another adapter but you would have to check), then carefully let it drill a hole carefully through the middle of the rock
then put a toggle bolt on a stick which could be made using a long threaded rod and a toggle bolt (base the drill size on the toggle bolts closed dia). A broom handle could be used for the extra length if needed though the connection would need to be secure,
duct tape around the two would probably work, the toggle bolt would work like a harpoon when it goes through the previously drilled hole and hopefully the rock is less tight than the strength of a toggle bolt and you could pull it out at the surface.
The only downside is the rock falling further down which is bad. maybe wedge something in the side to secure it further or something, but this would be an issue with any way so poking it with a stick may help to gauge the situation first
Tip for the drill bit: at the top close to the chuck wrap duct tape around a few inches down from the chuck until roughly a 1/2 inch iis built up. then take a 1/8 inch rod or so and bend a loop in the middle larger diameter than the bit but smaller than the tape is made in the center
so it looks kinda like a roller coaster, the loop should be in the middle and the ends should be longer than the diameter of the hole so that anywhere the loop is the there is always at least 2-3 inches of metal sticking over the edge ,
I recommend putting a 45 degree hook on each side as an extra safety measure, this will act as a safety net for the drill bit if it comes loose, A 2x4 could work too if you drill a hole through it with a larger drill,
that may be better as long as you can see what's going on and if the bit length allows. The metal rod could be hung several inches below the opening so you could get more reach with the drill.
Christopher: How about kinking at 5 feet a length of steel cable, 3/16dia can take 2 tons, push the kink through until the short end is under the rock then pull/play until it pops up. You have a basket sling for 4 tons. Prop and block a hydraulic jack on top and pull. Seems safe to try.
George: I have ss cable from my sailboat which has a fitting crimped on each end. You can drop it down one side and fashion a metal strap, the kind that is used for securing pipes, by putting a notch in it large enough to fit the cable in but smaller than the end fitting.
You can then pull the cable up and thereby wrap it around the underside of the rock. The cable can handle well over a ton. A come along can be used to haul it up.
Dave: It looks like you have a "Pitless" well. Could it be that the rock is resting on top of the "Pitless Adapter" near the frost line? I have a borescope on a 15 ft cable that should be small enough to get around the rock to see what is there. Let me know if you want to borrow it.
OP: funny thing. I bought a 50ft borescope from Amazon. It was well worth it Here’s pictures of the bottom of the well(32ft), the pitless adapter from underneath and the rocks from underneath. You are correct, there’s a small rock sitting on top of the pitless adapter and the larger rock sitting on top.
i'm just floored by how this has to be a common-ish problem that feels like it should have an easy solution worked out - you can see the rock! it's right there! - and yet the well company was just straight-up like "there's no solution, an obstruction means it's done for, just abandon it and dig another well"
Dave: My 2 cents would be to bend up some ¼ or 5/16 steel rod and make a couple of long pullers that you can slide past the rock, twist 90 deg and pull up on the rock. You may need to heat the rod with the torch in the machine shop to make the sharp radius bottom L bend
Seriously. There's a tool that attaches to a drilling machine that can be used to clear blockages. Not cheap, but cheaper than drilling a new well... and the block would have to be removed to cap the old well anyways...
It's called a junk bore I think? or a junk mill or something like that... I remember them fixing a well on my dad's farm when I was 15ish and asking all the questions. /things I never thought would be somewhat relevant to anything ever again lol
I feel like this problem can be solved with a little ingenuity and some hardware.
I’ve lived here going on 6 years without it so no immediate rush, but getting it out before winter would allow me to schedule the new pump to be installed in the spring.
Any takers or additional ideas?
Can you get something with suction to possibly lift/wiggle/prevent it from falling
Do you have any plumber friends? Maybe some sort of plunger/suction jimmy rigged contraption. Or Firecracker? Lol
The firecracker idea goes back to what one of the “well experts” suggested which is to “blast” it and pump out the debit at the bottom. Neither of which are within my capabilities and is going to cost a lot of money.
I never said this would be easy
- Fill the cup with construction adhesive.
- Place it on the rock.
- Allow adhesive to cure (protect from the elements as necessary, or time appropriately for this time of year with some nice days left).
Attached is my OXO plunger. The handle to rubber interface (thread) is strong enough to lift that rock out.
Make sure the inside of the modified plunger cup is clean before filling with construction adhesive (Liquid Nails, etc).
Is it a straight path to the rock ? How far down dose the pipe lead / what does it lead too.
How about this .....
Fish some kind of mesh/netting down one side, and a long road with a hook down the other. Catch the mesh underneath the rock with the hook, fashioning a net. Pull up from there to remove the rock.
If it’s a straight shot , Probably best bet is a post hole digger setup. Get two rods with curved plates welded on the end slide down squeeze and lift.
Thinking outside the pipe. If it's only 3 1/2 feet down, what if you dig a hole next to the pipe, about 5 feet down. Cut the pipe below the rock then just put a 5' piece of pipe back on.
You might only need the mouth to be 6 in wide at the bottom, but the sticks might need to be a foot or more apart at the top to open the mouth wide enough.
Is it possible to dig down to where the rock is stuck? Maybe 5 ft. Then drill below the rock and insert a rod. After which cut the pipe off and splice in a new one
If you could drill into the rock from above with a long drill bit extension (making sure this could not fall down the well), you might be able to epoxy something to the rock, and then pull it up, but it would be tricky.
Also, some sort of pantograph gripper might work, something that would allow you to grip the rock in that narrow space. It might look like this
If this isn't feasible then I'd suggest having some one make you a 5 foot L shaped pole.
(Check whether there is space around the rock before doing so)
Great suggestions so far. I don’t have any experience with wells, but I have to wonder if that is the only rock in the well. It might be that it is being supported by many other rocks, and not merely wedged where it is.
One thought was to lower a steel chain then fish it ’round with a magnet, but as Jay suggested, if there are more rocks below it, another approach may be required
Another dumb idea....
Get something you can inflate on the end of a hollow tube, fish it past the rock, then inflate it and pull out. As long as it's rugged enough not to pop, it should pull up the rock.
I don't think there are any other rocks underneath this one as I can see on either side it's completely black when shining a light. When cleaning the other rocks and debris off the top of it, I heard the smaller bits falling down and splashing in the water below.
Mike the problem with using a magnet is the pipe is made of steal.
As noted above, no inflatable device on earth is going to dislodge it with how stuck it is.
Vibrate the pipe with a Sawzall or something to help free the rock.
Depending how friendly you are with the people next door etc I have a way to break the rock up...
Sounds like fishing a chain under it and some sort of winch to get the necessary upward force is the best option?
I suggest you get that water tested once you have access.
As mentioned above, the previous owners were complete idiots and abused the hell out of this entire property.
Drop a skinny pump past the rock
hope the rambling is of use
-Eric
How about kinking at 5 feet a length of steel cable, 3/16dia can take 2 tons, push the kink through until the short end is under the rock then pull/play until it pops up. You have a basket sling for 4 tons. Prop and block a hydraulic jack on top and pull. Seems safe to try.
I have ss cable from my sailboat which has a fitting crimped on each end. You can drop it down one side and fashion a metal strap, the kind that is used for securing pipes, by putting a notch in it large enough to fit the cable in but smaller than the end fitting.
Here’s pictures of the bottom of the well(32ft), the pitless adapter from underneath and the rocks from underneath. You are correct, there’s a small rock sitting on top of the pitless adapter and the larger rock sitting on top.
This is "well" done,,,
Well Retrieval Tools Q&A-2 how to pull out stuff dro...
The home brew fixes are interesting but... yeesh... All this? I'm reading and going "sounds like asshole well company."
/things I never thought would be somewhat relevant to anything ever again lol
Holy smokes! Good job, I think you guys can do anything.
Yep, gotta pull the old pump out tomorrow and then I’ll send the water out to get tested.