Give me CR, get tl;dr feelings about them!
Sleepy sloth
Give me CR, get tl;dr feelings about them!
Give me CR, get tl;dr feelings about them!
Vincent Gogh
Sleepy sloth
Let's face it, tl;dr ramblings are my specialty.
arwingyoshi
Talwyn and Maul
Sleepy sloth
Vincent Gogh
: Maul and the Doctor! Well first off, Maul is ASTOUNDED there was someone always willing to be wholeheartedly on his side despite knowing the worst of what he'd done.
Sleepy sloth
And the thing that cemented it for him is when everyone dogpiled Maul because of the Glitch and Ironwood post and there was the Doctor in the midst trying to get everyone to understand Maul and see him from a different point-of-view.
Sleepy sloth
Maul doesn't forget a kindness like that done to him EVER and it showed him the Doctor could see him for who he was, not just some boogeyman or faceless monster like everyone else did.
Vincent Gogh
Sleepy sloth
And it helps that 1) The Doctor is SUPER OLD and has seen so much worse than Maul in the universe, so he knows Maul is not nearly the worst thing out there and is still capable of goodness when he tries and 2) The Doctor is an alien and realizes some of what makes Maul up is because he comes from a completely different culture than a lot of people.
Vincent Gogh
and also done; much worse >.>
Sleepy sloth
And Maul realized that the Doctor looked at him and didn't see some horrible, monstrous evil creature but something beautiful and wondrous and that has helped Maul to view himself in a different way. He still occasionally talks about him with Wesker in Trench.
Vincent Gogh
;3;
Vincent Gogh
Please pp me the threads
Sleepy sloth
Vincent Gogh
: Will do!
PleaseBeKind
If you remember any since I think there have been at least two, do the same!
Vincent Gogh
:3
Sleepy sloth
arwingyoshi
: Alright so these two haven't interacted a whole lot yet but Maul looks at Talwyn and sees a Sith culture so wildly different from his own that it's (pardon the pun) completely alien. I think with a bit more time it's going to become apparent to Maul that Sidious was an extremist and not at all what the Sith should have represented.
Sleepy sloth
And there's a bit of excitement there because Maul grew up so isolated with no yardstick of how to measure what his experiences as a Sith apprentice were like and here's someone who has a lot of things in common with him and yet is so unlike Maul at the same time.
Sleepy sloth
And Maul realizes too how much knowledge and culture has been lost over time by whittling the Sith down because of the Rule of Two, so he looks at Talwyn and sees an opportunity to gain some of that back and discover what was lost.
Sleepy sloth
Of course, Maul being Maul, he also looks at a fellow Sith with suspicion and is sort of waiting for the other shoe to drop. He feels Imperius will make a move at some point to gain more power and probably stab him in the back and figures that'll come at some point, he just doesn't know when.
spicy mycophile
Jacob and Maul why not
Sleepy sloth
spicy mycophile
: Maul still is trying to figure out what makes Jacob up. Cause he's a Jedi still in Maul's mind and yet he has so many views about the Jedi that align so closely with Maul's own and is the first Jedi Maul has met who doesn't try to make excuses for the Order's shortcomings.
Sleepy sloth
Instead he's candid that they DID have flaws that hurt people, both unintentionally and intentionally, and it's refreshing for Maul to hear someone with views similar to his own.
TroubledBlues
Willow and Maul, especially since things are... changing
Sleepy sloth
At the same time, he realizes there is a very big power imbalance between the two of them because technically Jacob is still his slave and no matter what there's always going to be a bit of distance between them because Maul is his master.
vitamin cee
spicy mycophile
Sleepy sloth
And even so, Maul finds himself growing closer to him and now sees him as a sort of confidante because Jacob has seen him at several vulnerable moments and instead of taking advantage of that he's gone "Okay, let's try to heal you and fix your broken edges as best we can" which is something Maul hasn't ever gotten from anyone before.
WingsOfCover
D and Maul
Sleepy sloth
He's not quite to the point of being able to confide in Jacob with the worst of what he's done and what happened to him but he's getting there. He feels Jacob can understand him in a way few can. And let's face it, Maul's very lonely at this point in his life and just wants someone to talk to who won't judge and just listen.
CERTAINTY
chara & maul
Sleepy sloth
TroubledBlues
: WELL, things are definitely going to change aftere the current thread but for now...Maul feels he and Willow are in an uneasy truce. He's never liked the fact that (in his mind) she just jumped straight on the train of dogpiling him that everyone else did without hearing all the facts.
Sleepy sloth
And Maul doesn't back down from a challenge and that's exactly what he saw Willow as doing to him when she said she'd get in his way. At the same time, he also didn't see her as being entirely much of a threat, which is why he was able to have civil conversations with her.
ѕтσям¢αℓℓєя
Maul and Vyng? 
Sleepy sloth
And even after being cursed, I feel he blamed Willow the least of the 3 because from what he could see she didn't mean it as a punishment, as he felt Luna and John did, but more as a leash because she was scared of him and Maul can't blame people for being scared of him because he deliberately encourages that reputation.
Sleepy sloth
Then just as he was beginning to feel just maybe they could be civil to one another he killed her and Maul was horrified because he honestly didn't want to do that. Did he feel bad about it or feel actual remorse? Sort of. But more it had to do with the fact Maul sees balance in everything because of the Force and now that balance was out of whack.
Sleepy sloth
He's been wanting to make it up to her by doing something he feels will even it out but getting killed by her? Not what he had in mind.
Sleepy sloth
And when she apologizes, he knows it's going to be sincere, but because of what she does to Savage he's not going to be able to forgive her. He's always willing to take punishment himself because he's learned actions have consequences and his actions tend to skew towards horrible things, but killing his beloved littler brother is one step too far.
Toasty Mallow
Usagi and Maul, Snow and Maul
Sleepy sloth
vitamin cee
: Maul and Will! Will is interesting because he was one of the first kids Maul saw as having some powerful inside of him and at first he thought he could just manipulate Will into doing what he wanted. But the fact Will knew exactly who and what he was put a kibosh on those plans because Will was too savvy to be manipulated.
TroubledBlues
Love all of this!
Sleepy sloth
But then when Will needed help, Maul offered it for no other reason than he wanted to and because he was feeling generous that day. And feeling the Mind Flayer in his mind gave him sympathy for the boy because he'd been manipulated by something big, powerful, and evil just like Maul had. Then his interest in manipulating Will started to fade away.
Sleepy sloth
And instead he started seeing Will more as someone who needed to be watched over and protected even if Will still just saw him as an evil Sith Lord. Learning Reaper cared about him too also helped him to come to this conclusion and honestly Will's reaction to learning the two of them are a couple was one of the funniest things Maul experienced in Deerington.
Sleepy sloth
But yes, the long and the short of it is that Will went from being just a tool for Maul to someone he genuinely cared about and had a connection with. He is gonna miss him in Trench!
vitamin cee
awww MAUL
vitamin cee
u have a Heart 
Sleepy sloth
WingsOfCover
: Well, I do love that Maul's first impression has been "This is a very pretty person" and he was a little dazzled by that since rarely is Maul physically attracted to anyone EVER since he's a bit more demi than bi most of the time. And then when he had time to think he's kind of realized someone that pretty is likely a predator.
Sleepy sloth
Since in nature, someone that looks like D obviously means 'bait' to bring people closer to him. And he likes that D has such a different mindset than so many people in Trench. How things that freak people out or scare or alarm them he just takes with such aplomb.
Sleepy sloth
Learning about him and Luke though is likely to change things since Maul is HIGHLY protective of Luke and he'll be very suspicious D is treating him just like he's a free meal. He knows he probably would get his ass kicked in a fight with D but that's not going to prevent him from threatening to set him on fire or something.
Sleepy sloth
Kind of like that scene in 16 Candles. "I will, or at least find someone bigger than me, to kick your ass."
Sleepy sloth
But also since D is one of the few people who can take John out, he will greatly approve of him and send him a meatbasket as thanks for succeeding where he's failed.
Sleepy sloth
ALRIGHT EVERYONE! I'm going for a walk with my mom so I'll be back to finish the rest of these later! If you would like to leave me others to get my opinion, go right ahead!
Sleepy sloth
TroubledBlues
: I'm loving how complicated and crazy their relationship has gotten. It's developed so organically.
Sleepy sloth
vitamin cee
: As they say in the Aladdin sequel, "an itty bitty one but it's still there!"
Sleepy sloth
His interactions with Will have definitely shaped how he approaches other teens in the game with phenomenal cosmic powers like Peter and Sharon.
TroubledBlues
Same here! Maul is very good at pushing her buttons, and I feel like half the time he's not even doing it intentionally.
𝖍𝖔𝖗𝖗𝖊𝖚𝖗.
oh 
hops in here just in time... I'd love to hear thoughts on Peter, especially given the shifts in their CR as of late!
hops in here just in time... I'd love to hear thoughts on Peter, especially given the shifts in their CR as of late!
WingsOfCover
to be fair... D tried very hard not to have Luke as a meal and they're going to stop after Luke passes out in the rain
WingsOfCover
he will readily admit that he screwed up in biting Luke
WingsOfCover
not that Luke views it that way except maybe 'we should've tried harder to avoid anemia'
Sleepy sloth
ALRIGHT I'M BACK LET'S CONTINUE!
WingsOfCover
which... I imagine Maul showing up to threaten D and D being 'yes you are absolutely right to threaten me for this' will be a bit of a 'wait what?'
Sleepy sloth
CERTAINTY
: Maul is aware there is likely something disturbing and weird about this small child. Does he care? No, he was the same way at the same age, so he figures Chara is gonna grow up and become a serial killer or something and that's okay. The world can use more murderous children in it.
Sleepy sloth
He is also still unaware it was Chara antagonizing him in his February post and would likely challenge them to a fight if he knew so he can thoroughly thrash them to teach them a lesson. At least he won't want to murder them anymore for such a slight. Gotta learn from the best how to kill and Maul is the best!
Sleepy sloth
Also he just needs more interaction with them in general cause I love bouncing Maul off of them since Maul + small weird children always makes for a good time.
Sleepy sloth
ѕтσям¢αℓℓєя
: Maul and Vyng! So Maul actually is growing fond of Vyng in his own weird way because Vyng seems to get him in a way others don't and that goes all the way back to their first convo when Vyng immediately picked up that the Force was spiritual energy and not magic which is something a lot of people still don't get even now.
Sleepy sloth
And Maul feels Vyng doesn't judge him solely on a black and white, good and evil basis. Maul's dark but he's not always evil and Vyng sees things much more through a lens of what is found in nature. And Maul is very much a force of nature at his worst, so someone that can see him from such a perspective is unique in his mind.
Sleepy sloth
Vyng always seems to understand things about Maul's world that others don't, like how kyber crystals work and how a lot of the stuff Maul did in his youth was because he needed to survive, not necessarily because he wanted to do them.
Sleepy sloth
Vyng saving him from corruption is also going to put him solely in Maul's good books cause how many people would even bother to try to save someone like him instead of just outright killing him and letting him reset that way? He'll be seeking out Vyng a little more for talks on nature and meditation in the future.
Sleepy sloth
Also one thing I'd like for him to figure out is the relationship between Vyng and Obi-Wan. Cause Maul's feels for Obi-Wan have definitely shifted to romantic in nature, and while he logically knows he has absolutely no claim to what Obi-Wan does or who he's involved with, is that going to keep him from possibly getting jealous? Absolutely not.
Sleepy sloth
It's always been complicated between him and Kenobi and he knows that Obi-Wan doesn't return his feelings and might never until Maul can take responsibility and atone for his actions and even then probably not, but he still feels quite a lot of possessiveness towards the man cause Maul is Maul.
Sleepy sloth
And that would definitely be interesting with Vyng in the mix as well.
Sleepy sloth
Toasty Mallow
: Alright, Snow and Maul first since that's shorter. Snow is one of the most purehearted people Maul has ever met. IDK if Maul knows that part about the Queen trying to kill her specifically because she's "the fairest of them all" but he can totally believe it because Snow is beautiful inside and out to him.
Sleepy sloth
She always gives him a different perspective to think of than he would have been able to come up with before. Plus he feels he should listen to her because she comes from a childhood even more abusive and horrible than his own and came through it to still be as kind and gentle as she is.
Sleepy sloth
And that makes him wonder if he needs to stop relying on his background as a crutch. (Which he does.) And the way she uses her background to be kind and happy instead of letting it weigh her down gives him pause and makes him think he needs to start doing the same, to live in the present instead of always being bogged down in the past.
Sleepy sloth
Also he's incredibly protective of her and would obliterate any threat to her in two seconds. And he's rooting for her and Rose and feel they will make each other very happy and Maul very much wants romantic happiness for Snow.
Sleepy sloth
Maul and Usagi! The not!wife and his best friend in Trench. Maul knows for a fact she's his absolute strongest supporter in his quest for redemption and he realizes he leans on her a little too much sometimes but it's also because she's never abandoned him or said he needs to figure this out on his own.
Sleepy sloth
He's just barely to the point of realizing a lot of what she's told him needs to be put into practice (i.e. accepting not everyone will accept an apology from him, making amends to others, taking responsibility for his actions) but is still too proud to admit that's what he needs to do.
Sleepy sloth
But also the fact she can and will teach him the same lesson over and over again until it sticks helps a lot. She's patient with him in a way no one else in Trench is. She wants to see him change but she doesn't push for him to do so quickly or in a way that is uncomfortable for him by making him makeover his entire personality.
Sleepy sloth
She gets that he's dark, he's angry, and accepts those qualities while gently pushing that he doesn't need to be defined by his past or hold onto his toxic traits like hatred and possessiveness. Her love is unending and he's felt that from only a few people in his life.
Sleepy sloth
The fact she can also tell him Palpatine was a monster who she will happily obliterate in two seconds if he shows up and yet push him because she knows he can be better than what his master made him into annoys him but he knows is something he has to do.
Sleepy sloth
And then there's also how he feels Usagi is one of the most important people to him here. He just wants her to be happy and not have to suffer with the way things have happened to her in her past before. She's had such hardships and still is able to be so good and he admires that quality immensely in her.
Sleepy sloth
Plus he realizes she's not vulnerable with everyone. Most of the time she's Sailor Moon and trying to be everything for everyone and let them rely on her strength but with him she can just be Usagi and cry in his arms and let her armor down because she trusts him that much, a trust he will never, ever betray because he knows how rare that is.
PleaseBeKind
Hmm! Most recent was during the Omni/Omen magical infection, I think.
PleaseBeKind
Hold on....
Sleepy sloth
He loves her so much and she's one of the quadrants of love that Karkat talked about and that's exactly how he'd describe their relationship: an intense bond of love even if there's no romantic feelings involved.
PleaseBeKind
https://deernet.dreamwidth.org/... <- Here we go! Wesker re: The Doctor.
PleaseBeKind
For that matter, arriving in Deerington and meeting The Doctor was one of the accidentally shared memories I TL'ed.
Sleepy sloth
TroubledBlues
: Heh, it's true. A lot of it is he's just not socialized very well. For a rough analogy, he's like a dog that's been abused for much of its life. He thinks the only way he can interact with people is to snarl and growl and show his teeth and then bite if they get to close.
Sleepy sloth
And Kyle hit it on the head one day when he pointed out Maul is just socially awkward in general and having a simple conversation with people is really hard for him.
Sleepy sloth
WingsOfCover
: Maul will be over here yelling at Luke for being a dumbass and then go yell at D for biting him and then have D agree with him and he'll just go "..............Well, this has been a productive conversation, carry on."
WingsOfCover
hahahahaha
WingsOfCover
"wait, isn't this the part where you kill me or promise to see me dead or something"
Sleepy sloth
He's not used to people being so reasonable with him when he gets all snarly and protective over other people.
Sleepy sloth
skeletals: OMG MAUL AND PETER. Soooooooo much has evolved since their first meeting. At first Maul didn't care for Peter at ALL beyond being Paimon's host. I think it took him, what, six months to learn what Peter's name was?? And I think calling Peter a "useless creature" for so long sums up what Maul thought of him in general.
Sleepy sloth
Peter really seemed like a waste to Maul, just taking up room and being useless and not contributing anything that would make him seem worthy of using that body instead of ceding control to Paimon entirely. The one satisfying thing was how scared he was of Maul because really, in the game, not a lot of people are but Maul relishes in that quite a bit.
Sleepy sloth
Then Paimon talked a bit about Peter's past and Maul started to see that Peter took the opposite route from him in order to survive. Instead of becoming harsh and cruel, he became scared and appeasing towards the parental figure in his life who was abusing him.
Sleepy sloth
And Maul started to realize there's more to this kid than just a scared teen who's a host for a powerful demon. Then the real big change came with the jungle convo. Maul's never had anyone flat-out just try to understand him with empathy the way Peter did. He's used to all sorts of reactions: judgment, pity, anger, kindness, etc.
Sleepy sloth
But for Peter to stand his ground but still be able to tell Maul what happened to him was not okay, that it was abuse, but that being angry was still okay? That's never happened before and Maul finally realized Peter is really very empathetic and can take on other's emotional states as his own, something Maul hasn't encountered in Deer before.
WingsOfCover
D's not used to people backing off when they're upset over his vampiric side so that evens out
Sleepy sloth
And being told being angry is okay is a REALLY big step for Maul cause he feels like a lot of people want him to feel ashamed of that and tell him he needs to change that way of thinking to become a better person and that's......just never gonna happen for Maul. He's always going to be angry to some extent or another. In canon, he DIED still angry.
Sleepy sloth
Plus Peter also is the first to get Maul to actually say out loud what was done to him was abuse. He always justified it before to himself and others, so to say "What happened to me was wrong and not okay" was a HUMONGOUS step for Maul's personal development.
PleaseBeKind
and yep, would love some Teal Deer'ing about Maul and Wesker.
Sleepy sloth
So yeah, being able to communicate with Peter in a way both can understand is a HUGE step for both of them. It makes Maul realize that Peter has worth as a person on his own and that he's not useless, that he might even be able to help Maul to an extent by being able to empathize with him. Really excited to see where they go from here!
Sleepy sloth
Also if Peter ends up becoming Maul's pseudo-therapist I will laugh and laugh and laugh.
Sleepy sloth
WingsOfCover
: Maul comes from a predator species himself so he does get those instincts taking over sometimes.
Sleepy sloth
PleaseBeKind
: Maul and Wesker! So I LOVE how parallel these two are in temperament, personality, and backstory. Maul first saw Wesker as just an ally, someone who could have his back while Maul had his. Then after Maul caused a lot of chaos in Deerington he realized Wesker had grown from ally to friend because he stuck by him when a lot of others didn't.
Sleepy sloth
Maul started to trust him and confide in him and that only grew once they reached Trench together. Being able to tell things to someone who could go "I relate strongly to that cause I've been through similar things" is a big deal for Maul cause 97% of the people he interacts with DON'T get it cause they haven't led a life like he has.
Sleepy sloth
But Wesker gets it and that's important to Maul in such a big way. With how close the two of them have become, it was natural for Maul to want to form a familial bond with him because as far as he's concerned he and Wesker are brothers now, which means Maul will stand by him no matter what he does no matter if he's right or wrong.
Sleepy sloth
Family is a huge deal to Maul, so having someone reach that status means a lot to him.
Sleepy sloth
Also, fun fact, Wesker is still only one of a few people who have ever heard Maul sing in the game!
PleaseBeKind
Mmm, if I recall, he was impressed with Maul
PleaseBeKind
's voice.
Sleepy sloth
Yep! Maul's got a very nice singing voice, it's semi-canon since his VA sings professionally with his band and they've put out an album or two.
PleaseBeKind
Noice!!
WingsOfCover
D would like it if his prey wasn't people. but also I hope maul mentions the very pretty + human prey thing
•ꜰʀɪᴋᴋᴇɴ ʙᴀᴛꜱ•
Ivar/Billy
Sleepy sloth
WingsOfCover
: LOL I hope so too! Maul knows what's up when some immortal teenager looks THAT pretty.
Sleepy sloth
•ꜰʀɪᴋᴋᴇɴ ʙᴀᴛꜱ•
: Which verse?
•ꜰʀɪᴋᴋᴇɴ ʙᴀᴛꜱ•
The one where Ivar found him at the cabin and stopped him from dying
Sleepy sloth
Alright! So Ivar is really frigging OLD and his temper has definitely gotten better over the years. Back in the day, he would have seen Billy as next-to-useless and just fodder for the battlefield but now? He feels that Billy can be of some use to him in ways that aren't easy for him to do himself.
Sleepy sloth
He does find Billy amusing in a certain way because he's pretty much a pup to someone as old as Ivar and so he kind of sees him as entertainment as well. But Billy also fascinates him in a way because it's been quite a bit of time since Ivar was back among humans. He feels like having Billy around will keep things interested for him.
•ꜰʀɪᴋᴋᴇɴ ʙᴀᴛꜱ•
Aw Ivar
𝗟𝘂𝗻𝗮𝗿𝗲
Sharon and Maul 
𝖍𝖔𝖗𝖗𝖊𝖚𝖗.
wraps my arms around all of this....... This cr journey has been so good 
I love how Maul was kind of repeating that cycle of abuse to Peter and then... what's happening now, I'm also really looking forward to seeing how things go! Peter being Maul's psuedo-therapist omg, the outcome nobody could have predicted........ I love it so much jdpkag
I love how Maul was kind of repeating that cycle of abuse to Peter and then... what's happening now, I'm also really looking forward to seeing how things go! Peter being Maul's psuedo-therapist omg, the outcome nobody could have predicted........ I love it so much jdpkag
Sleepy sloth
skeletals: It really has been SO GOOD! LOVE how it's constantly evolved with the two of them never really bothering to sit down and actually talk till recently. And LOL YES I'm just imagining someone being like "Maul seems more emotionally stable, what did you do???" And Peter just being like ".......Got him to talk about his feelings?"
Sleepy sloth
It helps that Peter puts things into terms Maul can understand. Telling him it was okay to be angry all the time was REALLY validating for him and actually helped him get that kick in the butt to realize he can be angry but doesn't have to be that way forever.
Sleepy sloth
𝗟𝘂𝗻𝗮𝗿𝗲
: Well, interestingly enough Sharon and Snow White have had a similar way in shaping Maul's CR with them and that's that both young women have gone through childhoods even more horrific than his. Because as bad as Sidious was, he never actively tried to kill Maul in a direct manner.
Sleepy sloth
If he succeeded in the tasks Sidious set forth, great, if not, well he wasn't strong enough, but never did Sidious outright say "I'm going to murder this child for giggles." So for one Maul can't pull the "My childhood was horrendous" card on them cause Sharon had it waaaaay worse than him as Alessa and even once she got pulled to Silent Hill as a girl.
Sleepy sloth
And then after meeting Rose and hearing a little about what Sharon went through, he was already highly sympathetic upon meeting Sharon for the first time and then especially when he heard how what motivated her as well was revenge.
Sleepy sloth
Because not many people in town really get that Maul survived what should have kill him solely because of his desire for revenge. And so he doesn't look at Sharon and see a monster or someone to condemn because he feels what she did was totally justified. Was it right? No. Was it needed on a personal level? Of course.
Sleepy sloth
Had he met her a year ago, he would have been interested in manipulating her but he's cut out a lot of that behavior as of late. Plus she's Rose's daughter and he respects Rose a lot because she's been kind to him. So he sees her instead as a possible protégé, someone he can help guide down the right path and teach how to properly use her powers.
Sleepy sloth
Cause he figures everyone can go blah blah blah about her desire for revenge but Maul is keenly aware if you don't train someone with fantastic powers that are fueled by emotion, you can end up with someone dangerous who can't control them and are a danger to themselves and everyone around them.
Sleepy sloth
Maul may be many things but he's never been out of control with his Force powers and has mastered all but one of them.
𝗟𝘂𝗻𝗮𝗿𝗲
oh maul you precious surprisingly understanding sith baby. I really love their cr. He’s the first person she’s felt bold enough to be honest about herself with outside of Rose so she kind of looks up to him. But that also means she’s got high expectations of him too.
oh maul you precious surprisingly understanding sith baby. I really love their cr. He’s the first person she’s felt bold enough to be honest about herself with outside of Rose so she kind of looks up to him. But that also means she’s got high expectations of him too.
Toasty Mallow
one day, Maul will have to learn that Usagi absolutely went after Galaxia for revenge
Sleepy sloth
𝗟𝘂𝗻𝗮𝗿𝗲
: Aw, he'd feel honored if he knew though he does sense Sharon doesn't usually tell everyone what's she's told him.
Sleepy sloth
Toasty Mallow
: Definitely. She's told him the general gist but not all the specific details.
ѕтσям¢αℓℓєя
Circling back to this to say how much I enjoy your Maul & Vyng meta :> their CR has been a pleasant surprise for me, from their kyber crystal discussions to discussing where Maul's coming from to their sillier scenes too. Really looking forward to their July thread!
ѕтσям¢αℓℓєя
And I am totes open to Maul eventually figuring out the quiet feelings-with-benefits thing between Obi-Wan and Vyng (although we may need to run it by Timmy first)