L'fuckingChaim
I'm gonna do it I'm gonna feel the emotions (89-90???)
L'fuckingChaim
I see Urianger's pixie-related experience is being useful
L'fuckingChaim
how to make people want to tell you things/do what you want, even if their way of thinking is alien to you
L'fuckingChaim
...I wonder if the Ea's terrible truth is that they figured out about the heat death of the universe
L'fuckingChaim
Urianger and Y'shtola are - not a lot of dialogue is spent on their relationship, but they way they can silently communicate in such small motions here is. it's good.
L'fuckingChaim
oh
L'fuckingChaim
Urianger, if you talk to him right here, is worried for Y'shtola, who also wishes to understand all of creation
L'fuckingChaim
but the Ea claim that they discovered the ultimate truth and uh. they're actively suicidal.
Un(t)sundered
/sits
L'fuckingChaim
I know we're losing one of the nerds here
L'fuckingChaim
Y'shtola: I know not what mischief you are plotting, Urianger...but I trust you have our best interests at heart.
L'fuckingChaim
that's. yeah.
L'fuckingChaim
Urianger frets about being The Shady Friend, and worries the other Scions will (or should) close him out
L'fuckingChaim
but they are all 100% sure that he loves them and will not seek to harm them
L'fuckingChaim
I mean, Alisaie back in post-HW listened to Urianger "being convinced" by Elidibus and still trusted him
Un(t)sundered
yeah, and like. he's not wrong to worry?
L'fuckingChaim
no, he's not
Un(t)sundered
given how often he ends up in the 'doing a shady thing' role
L'fuckingChaim
but likewise, the Scions' trust in him has yet to be betrayed
Un(t)sundered
but also, yeah, time and again we have chosen to trust he knows what he's doing
Un(t)sundered
and he does!
skerple
much like how the people of the Crystarium trusted the Exarch with his mysteries because he had never once let them down, we continue to trust Urianger and roll our eyes at worst when he's being shady because he, too, has never let us down
L'fuckingChaim
yes
skerple
honestly the "worst" thing he ever did to the Scions was to arrange for Minfilia to go help the First
skerple
because that did cause everyone a certain amount of regrettable distress
skerple
Thancred especially
skerple
but it was still 1000% with everyone's best interests in mind because it, uh.... staved off the apocalypse
Un(t)sundered
yeah (which... I had to explain some of the details to to kiddo today because she was watching me do the run-up into Il Mheg on an alt today)
skerple
and also Ardbert's party was only on the Source causing trouble for us because the First was fucked up, so it was addressing the immediate issue as well
Un(t)sundered
(which definitely ran smack into Urianger's explanation of his 'vision')
Nancy Crawfish
I'll admit I lost track of why he needed to be all secret about helping the Warriors of Darkness
Nancy Crawfish
rather than telling the other Scions the deal
Un(t)sundered
iirc it was because working with the Warriors of Darkness meant working with Elidibus? but it's been ages since I did that stretch
Nancy Crawfish
ah that'd make sense
L'fuckingChaim
also bc Elidibus had lied to Ardbert
L'fuckingChaim
so they were here to kill the WoL
L'fuckingChaim
the Minfilia thing was also...the real damage had already been done
skerple
yeah - by Hydaelyn, even
L'fuckingChaim
Minfilia was already dead, definitely not his plan
L'fuckingChaim
and...not even Thancred can argue that this isn't what she would have chosen, had Urianger been able to ask
skerple
yeah absolutely
skerple
Urianger didn't compel her to go to the First
L'fuckingChaim
it's...unclear if Hydaelyn did, because the Minfilia-to-Hydaelyn(-to Venat) ratio is very ~fuzzy~
L'fuckingChaim
but Urianger doesn't tell the Mothercrystal what to do yet
skerple
he basically just arranged for an audience, knowing what she would do once she had been made aware of the First's situation
L'fuckingChaim
god. Urianger. "hey guys did it occur to you that Meteion probably killed all these depressed alien ghosts personally?"
L'fuckingChaim
ah yes
L'fuckingChaim
Urianger is DEFINTELY telling me and G'raha, just us, this for no particular reason
Un(t)sundered
at least he's
Un(t)sundered
telling people first?
L'fuckingChaim
yeah
L'fuckingChaim
"I'm going to do something super shady and probably die. Just FYI."
L'fuckingChaim
uh
L'fuckingChaim
Deneb III
L'fuckingChaim
that
L'fuckingChaim
um
L'fuckingChaim
someone needs to tell me that them calling a star Deneb doesn't make them earth humans
L'fuckingChaim
and I don't need to think about this
L'fuckingChaim
ah yes
L'fuckingChaim
they DID discover the heat death of the universe
Un(t)sundered
they are absolutely not earth humans just because they named a star the same!
L'fuckingChaim
...man, imagine playing this game/watching this cutscene from a hypothetical future where that theory has been discredited
Un(t)sundered
they are perhaps more human-like than others you've met out there! but that doesn't make them Exactly Us
L'fuckingChaim
yeah
L'fuckingChaim
...I guess when you have transcended physical bodies, the heat death of the universe does become more of a concern
L'fuckingChaim
as opposed to being exponentially beyond every other kind of death that will definitely take us first
L'fuckingChaim
like even I, who does crave glory eternal, have given up on worrying by the "a geologic age is HOW long, exactly?" mark, let alone after the sun has exploded
L'fuckingChaim
god
L'fuckingChaim
Y'shtola
L'fuckingChaim
what good voice acting
L'fuckingChaim
a lot of Y'shtola's dialogue leans really heavily on the voice actors
L'fuckingChaim
also don't mind me taking this speech for a Depression Playlist (TM)
L'fuckingChaim
(anti-depression, obvs)
L'fuckingChaim
Y'sthola...telling us how to give up on the world to bring them back
L'fuckingChaim
just so she can tell us not to
L'fuckingChaim
GOD
L'fuckingChaim
OH GOD
L'fuckingChaim
THEY'RE GOING TOGETHER
L'fuckingChaim
Urianger & Y'shtola is my new friendship
skerple
they're sooo gooood ;;
Un(t)sundered
god yeah, I had
L'fuckingChaim
NERD RIDE AND DIE
Un(t)sundered
feelings about Y'shtola confirming that we could bring them back only to immediately go 'and also don't do it'
L'fuckingChaim
yeah
L'fuckingChaim
feelings about Y'shtola thinking about this problem up to the end, and also about her taking her last minute to tell us even though she doesn't want us to do it
L'fuckingChaim
also I'm feelings about Urianger "I'm not sure I can believe in the laws of nature but I do have a lot of practice believing in you" Augurelt
skerple
yeah
skerple
the Scion Death March is so goddamn harrowing
L'fuckingChaim
believe in the me who believes in you
skerple
in large part because it's full of moments like that
L'fuckingChaim
yeah
L'fuckingChaim
it's. really good character work, not a bunch of Generic Death Scenes
skerple
yeah, it's all telegraphed as hell but that doesn't make it hit any softer, because this is how they go
L'fuckingChaim
yeah
skerple
not the way any interchangeable character goes
L'fuckingChaim
...whoops it's level 90 now
L'fuckingChaim
that was sooner than I expected
Un(t)sundered
yeah, the character work is real solid
L'fuckingChaim
need to go grab 300k RDM exp real quick
skerple
and like you're PRETTY sure Ishikawa isn't going to mass-kill the Scions
Un(t)sundered
and very tuned to like... 'this character/these characters Know How TO Address This Problem)
skerple
but you have to be really FUCKING SURE
Un(t)sundered
*"
Un(t)sundered
also hit a leveling roulette?
L'fuckingChaim
I am definitely only pretty sure
L'fuckingChaim
there a couple aether current quests that just popped! I'mma hit those
skerple
and god just like. I keep revisiting this thesis but like, I strongly suspect that Ishikawa is or was a fanfic writer
skerple
for several reasons
Un(t)sundered
tbh, I could see it
Un(t)sundered
she's very good at... character beats?
Un(t)sundered
and balancing sorrow with levity
skerple
yeah, her character work is goddamn immaculate, she clearly prioritizes Character in her writing
skerple
in a very... fanfic-esque way
skerple
I had multiple moments in EW where I was like "this is giving me the emotional experience I usually need to go to fanfic for"
skerple
also her fondness for using Format as a storytelling tool
skerple
/gestures expansively at Dark Knight
Un(t)sundered
yeah, and that's both a boon and a drawback? because if, say, you can't/don't connect to like. Emet-Selch, the whole of ShB is gonna fall kinda short because the writing thrives on that connection to character
L'fuckingChaim
I can see that
skerple
and frankly her tenure on MSQ has done a great job reconciling a lot of the awkward crufty backstory that comes from, being an MMO that had to burn down and relaunch,
skerple
which is also a very.... fanfic writer skill
skerple
basically all of her stuff feels very strongly to me like "the best fic writer in your fandom gets to write canon now"
L'fuckingChaim
she take a hammer and FIX the canon
L'fuckingChaim
...this sidequest Ea just asked me the meaning of life and the universe and I couldn't not answer "Forty-two"
Un(t)sundered
yeah, she's done a real good job of like. looping in some of the odd little bits and making something out of them
L'fuckingChaim
that option was put in for people like me
L'fuckingChaim
yeah! and the good results go both ways - helps make the endgame seem anchored in things that have always been true
L'fuckingChaim
ok I am swining back & forth between anxiety and really really sleepy so I'mma log out now
kikibug13
kikibug13
Ultima Thule is rough
kikibug13
so good, but rough
Un(t)sundered
yeah, agreed
L'fuckingChaim
it's not even the game feelings, I just. can't focus at all.
Un(t)sundered
kikibug13
/nods also fair.
kikibug13
it might be that the game atmosphere also catalyzes the anxiety even if it's not the source of it
FʀᴏᴍTʜᴇFɪʀᴇ
comes in late but I've always been mad about Urianger blaming himself for the Minfilia thing because like. buddy. she chose to go. she had agency in that and she did make an informed decision that she probably wasn't ever going to get to come back or see anyone on the Source side again.
kikibug13
and she absolutely told him she agreed with it but also he's ... like that. He blames himself for raha also, even though that didn't happen.
FʀᴏᴍTʜᴇFɪʀᴇ
yeah. just me shaking him quietly in the background constantly
FʀᴏᴍTʜᴇFɪʀᴇ
that said i agree with the upthread points about this being really strongly character driven
FʀᴏᴍTʜᴇFɪʀᴇ
and specifically in that regard: Estinien
L'fuckingChaim
Estinien
FʀᴏᴍTʜᴇFɪʀᴇ
Thancred's feels the weakest because it's just so sudden (it's the only one that really has shock value imo) but Estinien's is so strong when you. contextualize it, in terms of this being a man who lived his entire life for war against dragons
FʀᴏᴍTʜᴇFɪʀᴇ
and now he's here. the war is over and he hasn't put down his spear. but he's making it clear that that's his choice. that he understands that there is life after war, that after everything - after a war that lasted ages that are literally incomprehensible to the normal human mindset! - that the time after the war is still worth hoping for
L'fuckingChaim
yeah
L'fuckingChaim
yeah
L'fuckingChaim
and also, that yelling at dragons to be less depressed is just what he does now
FʀᴏᴍTʜᴇFɪʀᴇ
yeah lil bit
L'fuckingChaim
and just. that he can say "this does not have to be the end" with the full force of his heart
L'fuckingChaim
because the most Character of this whole thing is that you can't Manifest something you don't really feel, he could theoretically have just been Saying Words to Tiamat and Vrtra but that's not possible here
kikibug13
you cry it out with your soul
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