VIRGIN-SENPAI
I'm watching a speedrun of Golden Sun 2 while working, and damn... I miss Golden Sun so much... Holla at all the Golden Sun fans out there!
Calliente
/slams hands on table
Calliente
Did someone say Golden Sun
VIRGIN-SENPAI
ME
Calliente
God I love those games
Calliente
At least the first two
Calliente
I tried to play the third one and got quickly bored with it
VIRGIN-SENPAI
I don't know why they haven't made another game. I know the sales in japan were mediorce but we sure love it here! it'd be like printing free money!
VIRGIN-SENPAI
honestly, I liked Dark Dawn! but it definitely wasn't as good as the first two, I agree
VIRGIN-SENPAI
if they'd just put some more effort into the characters and story it'd be untouchable
Calliente
I mean, honestly, I also loathed the shift in art style
VIRGIN-SENPAI
yeah, the 3d models were a step down from the pixel art
Calliente
I fucking love sprites, and when you go from sprites to polygons my interest drops by about a solid 50% guaranteed
Calliente
Oftentimes I refuse to even continue engaging with a series that makes that transition
VIRGIN-SENPAI
the environments were fine but the characters were not great. DS limitations
Calliente
I stopped playing Star Ocean after the second one
Calliente
I mean, honestly, even without the limitations I doubt I would have liked them as much
VIRGIN-SENPAI
unfortunately we just kinda have to... put up with it nowadays
VIRGIN-SENPAI
I wish everything looked like octopath traveller, but it won
VIRGIN-SENPAI
't
Calliente
In my experience, sprite art is a lot more colorful and whimsical than more 'realistic' depictions of characters, and you lose so much personality when transitioning from the former to the latter
Calliente
I feel like there's an almost inevitable shift in the entire design philosophy when you go to character models
VIRGIN-SENPAI
Have you ever played smash ultimate? Issac is a summon, and he looks pretty good in that
Calliente
I have played the game, but I haven't seen the summon
Calliente
That said, characters that were designed as sprites first and then grandfathered into character modeling always tend to look better
Calliente
Star Ocean still makes me pissed about this because the change is so stark with it
Calliente
https://imgs.plurk.com/QzR/1ea/SFot1stwdHl2jhSPTfrTdsQEwDy_lg.jpg
Calliente
Like, these are some of the characters from the (remade) first game
Calliente
(I sadly can't find a good cast shot of SO2's characters)
Calliente
You've got bird people, cat people, varied faces and colorful costumes, extremely distinctive character design
Calliente
This is the cast of SO3, when they made the transition to character modeling
Calliente
https://imgs.plurk.com/QzR/iDx/cBrWEv36wDSF2e2XbC8d95UJLfk_lg.png
Calliente
Thanks, tri-Ace, I love it
Calliente
And like...I get it
VIRGIN-SENPAI
what the fuck lol
Calliente
When you're making 3D models of characters, making a whole bunch of distinctive shapes and models is way harder and more expensive than when you're drawing them
VIRGIN-SENPAI
it's like they hired an artist that made one of those terrible how to draw manga books from the mid 2000s
Calliente
So of course you can go wilder with sprites
Calliente
But it can lead to such horrific visual and conceptual downgrades that I tend to just...hate it
Calliente
(To be fair, I know some people really like SO3, and it's probably a fine game)
Calliente
(But I cannot compare it to SO2, and the remakes of SO1 and SO2 - I only ever played SO1 as the remake version - without the difference being so painfully obvious)
VIRGIN-SENPAI
what I like best about golden sun is the out of battle psynergy and environmental puzzles, which DD still had in good measure, so I liked it.
Calliente
Honestly, I think you can even see that issue crop up between FFVI and FFVII, although I think FFVII handled the transition better than most
Calliente
Yeah, that's valid!
VIRGIN-SENPAI
I agree with FF. 6 was obviously them really mastering the console, same with 9. 7 was a middle child, but it had enough strengths to pull through as a game as a whole
VIRGIN-SENPAI
it also had a great marketing campaign lol
Calliente
Well, also, even with polygons and character models, they made the characters very distinctive and weren't afraid to get creative with them, no matter how much extra time and money it'd mean
Calliente
All of them were visually distinct and interesting
VIRGIN-SENPAI
yeah, they all had different body types and costume shapes
VIRGIN-SENPAI
and color schenes
VIRGIN-SENPAI
they weren't afraid to make the main character wear a bright purple jumpsuit
Calliente
Or have an actual panther as a party member
VIRGIN-SENPAI
haha, red certainly drew me in as a kid who liked the lion king too much
Calliente
Like, one of the things that made me so critical of SO3 is because, the game before, your party members could consist of:

- a girl wearing half a robotic power loader suit
- a guy with a pair of dragon heads fused to his shoulders
- three-eyed aliens
- a woman wearing one of THE most out-there outfits I've seen in gaming, fully detailed on her sprite
Calliente
To a cast of:

- some people, some of whom are a little taller or thicker than the others, and some of the muted colors of their clothes are different colors
Calliente
Complete with a lot of same-face syndrome
VIRGIN-SENPAI
yeah, that's what I noticed
VIRGIN-SENPAI
a brownish, soupy mess
VIRGIN-SENPAI
and the faces were terrible, with those blank wall0eyes
Calliente
And it was just like...all the fun design elements and visually distinct characters had been priced out of existence just so they could be 3D characters
Calliente
I'm sure SO3 was a middle child in its own right, considering the timeframe, and its being the first to transition that series to 3D
VIRGIN-SENPAI
that's what I always thought when I was that age too, the 64/playstation era. like, the games on the snes look better than this, even though it's a newer system
Calliente
So I'm not trying to be too hard on the game itself
Calliente
Just...how 3D realism seems to sacrifice the creativity and fantastical elements of sprite art in general, and I personally don't think it's worth the tradeoff
Calliente
Yeah, a lot of N64 games - especially the early ones - really suffered :|a
Calliente
But some of them proved it is possible to have both, too
Calliente
I loved one very obscure N64 game that probably no one else has heard of, called Mischief Makers
VIRGIN-SENPAI
I know! never played it, but I know it
Calliente
And it was fucking FULL of whimsy and color and interest
Calliente
Although then again, I'm not sure how fully 3D it was, now that I think about it...?
VIRGIN-SENPAI
it was side scrolling 3d
VIRGIN-SENPAI
but I think marina was a sprite?
VIRGIN-SENPAI
it looks like a very simple flat 3d model
Calliente
/nod
Calliente
Most of the elements look 3D, but I wasn't sure if it was actually 3D or more like...an illusion of 3D, like Vectorman
VIRGIN-SENPAI
but like
VIRGIN-SENPAI
my favorites were sprite games on systems like ps1/64
VIRGIN-SENPAI
like symphony of the night
VIRGIN-SENPAI
GORGEOUS
Calliente
GOD yeah
VIRGIN-SENPAI
I can't believe there aren't more games like that
Calliente
That's one of the reasons I love the DS Castlevania games
Calliente
Sprite beauty
VIRGIN-SENPAI
ORDER OF ECCLESIA!!!!!!!!!
Calliente
YES although tbh I'm not sure which is my favorite
VIRGIN-SENPAI
that's my fav, because they had the great sprites AND the gothic artwork, instead of the anime faces
VIRGIN-SENPAI
also it was really challenging and I like that
Calliente
I definitely did not like Dawn of Sorrow's anime art, but its gameplay was still great
Calliente
If it'd had the same art style as Aria of Sorrow, it would've been a perfect game
VIRGIN-SENPAI
AGREED
Calliente
I also really liked Portrait of Ruin
VIRGIN-SENPAI
(also the GBA fire emblem games are a big favorite, just sayin)
Calliente
Oh man, yeah, Blazing Blade was my very first FE game
Calliente
And I liked Sacred Stones even better, since it let me grind
Calliente
Blazing Blade actually had me fall for the Jagen trap like a chump
VIRGIN-SENPAI
fitting, as it was the first one here lol
Calliente
And that's led me all the way to Claude :v
VIRGIN-SENPAI
yep! god, the GBA was such a good time
VIRGIN-SENPAI
there's something about those limitations that draw out creativity
Calliente
Btw, if you want a really good sprite-based RPG, I can't recommend Star Ocean: Second Evolution highly enough
Calliente
(Or even Star Ocean: Second Story, which is the original version, but the remake has a lot of nice things added, like character portraits, voice acting, a better script translation...)
Calliente
(I think the item crafting sprites suffer, but with the other upgrades that's a small price to pay)
Calliente
...to be fair, I should say Second Evolution has more voice acting, because Second Story had voice acting
Calliente
But only in the form of battle quotes
Calliente
Whereas Second Evolution voices most lines
Calliente
I seriously put it on the same level as my favorite Final Fantasy games as being one of the best RPGs I've ever played
VIRGIN-SENPAI
what console was it for?
Calliente
The original game was PS1, the remake was on the Vita
Calliente
You can emulate both, though
Calliente
Note that the PS1 game was multi-disc, so you'll need an emulator that can handle that gracefully
VIRGIN-SENPAI
I've got a vita, is the remake hard to get a hold of? as far as I know there is no fully working vita emulator
Calliente
Oh, my bad, apparently it was PSP? Huh, I didn't even realize it was that far back
Calliente
No wonder I remembered that it could definitely be emulated, PSP does have a functional emulator
Calliente
That said, I'm not finding much availability of the actual PSP game
Calliente
So emulation would be your best bet
VIRGIN-SENPAI
ok! I was wondering, lol
VIRGIN-SENPAI
if there were a vita emulator, I'd be using it to play kazuki's games when I stream lol
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