Quinneapolis
Woolie comparing FF14 raids to rhythm games gave me a concept for a game
Quinneapolis
action rhythm game a la Just Shapes and Beats but with 4+ players simultaneously and with simplified raid mechanics
Quinneapolis
stacks, spreads, gazes, etc
Quinneapolis
and you have to learn the song and then work together cooperatively to endure the boss's attacks until the song ends
RobotApocalypse
oh this is an absolutely fascinating concept
Quinneapolis
so you're like, for this part of the chorus, everyone has to stand together to tank the big hit, then all dash out to the corners for the individual blasts
Gabiluzbad
this sounds like it'd rule
Quinneapolis
rather than tank/healer/dps roles, one unified kit; health recovers over time and everyone has three main actions they can do other than walking around
Quinneapolis
- revive a dead ally (takes a few seconds, find a good spot for it)
RobotApocalypse
throw in 3-4 "classes" for tank/dps/healing roles, with an MP bar that fills based on your combo/note precision (so basically your score is your MP bar)
Quinneapolis
- get the boss's attention (you are now the tank)
RobotApocalypse
oh you beat me to it
Quinneapolis
- dash
Quinneapolis
or that
RobotApocalypse
i like the idea of roles for variety
Quinneapolis
the tricky thing is what dps does because like
Quinneapolis
in a rhythm game, i don't want to beat the boss quickly if it means the song cuts off
Quinneapolis
the fights should be fixed length
RobotApocalypse
but battles should be tuned to be able to be beaten by any combination of roles
RobotApocalypse
right
RobotApocalypse
so maybe not DPS, maybe they're all support type roles
RobotApocalypse
tank, buffs, healer
連続犬
counterpoint that would take much more implementation but work smoother
Quinneapolis
and as you get into the game you can get basically as complex as you want to go
Quinneapolis
watch FF14 savage guides for ideas of how insane this could get
Quinneapolis
EDEN'S GATE: SEPULTURE (SAVAGE) RAID GUIDE - E4S
連続犬
songs have fixed loop/bridge to next section points
Quinneapolis
god, Titan's battlefield even looks like a rhythm game arena
連続犬
so that way if you are fucking up the song just keeps going and loops around and bridges when it's supposed to bridge
連続犬
but also if you decide to go full Danger Mario 4 DPS
連続犬
you effectively play a TV-Size/Anime Opening length version based on the bridge points
Ken
I had an hour long Paradigm’s Breach as DNC yesterday, the rhythm game is already here for me. 
Quinneapolis
what if the boss's health doesn't line up with the length of your bridges
Quinneapolis
so you clear it in the middle of a transition
Quinneapolis
god watching this video is giving me ptsd
連続犬
my thought is the final bridge is significantly before the endpoint, say like, 10% HP, and has a part that can basically bridge to the 0% cutscene outro at basically any time
RobotApocalypse
tanks absorb damage, obviously, and maybe buff the party's ability to take damage. buffers could do stuff like make MP build up faster, or make it easier to hit perfect notes. healers restore HP, increase max HP, revive the whole party at full HP (i think anyone can revive but it's one at a time and like 50% hp )
連続犬
obviously that's hard to like, describe in detail because any game like this requires RIDICULOUS amounts of sound engineering to make work
連続犬
but like, that was my thought
Quinneapolis
yeah
Quinneapolis
basically there are levels of how complex you could go or not go
Quinneapolis
but what it comes down to is
Quinneapolis
raid bosses are a dance
Quinneapolis
so why not dance to music
RobotApocalypse
oh here's an idea for DPS: instead of killing the boss, what it does is disable the boss in certain ways. like in RPGs when you have a multi-part boss and you can kill the left hand to disable a specific action and etc
Quinneapolis
or adds
RobotApocalypse
yeah!
RobotApocalypse
so you can't kill the boss faster but your DPS can make it easier to survive by picking off the stuff that does extra damage
Quinneapolis
everyone of course having moves that are more effective if done on the beat
Quinneapolis
dash has a cooldown but if you do it perfectly on the beat the cooldown accelerates to be available by the next beat
RobotApocalypse
nice
Gabiluzbad
Presentation is super important. Evidence: FF14 bored me to tears but this sounds fun as HELL
RobotApocalypse
also cooldowns should be by beat instead of real time imo
RobotApocalypse
a slow-beat song is going to be easier than a fast-beat song anyway so it's fine if your cooldowns are slower for it
RobotApocalypse
(and it's way easier to just count beats than to try and keep track of beats and also seconds)
izzy.vrm
i'm super into this
izzy.vrm
the way i'd do dps tho is like
izzy.vrm
here are ways to do variable mixes that have transitionary musical phrases of variable length
izzy.vrm
so you have a 1 measure, 2 measure, 3 measure, 4 measure different phrase depending on when the boss loses its health
izzy.vrm
otherwise, the phase loops
izzy.vrm
so through the song, you're fighting to push into future phases
izzy.vrm
until you hit the Encore, which doesn't require any DPS
izzy.vrm
and it's all about dodging and projectile mitigation while the song ends
Quinneapolis
I think the main hurdle this would face as an actual game would be
Quinneapolis
network latency
izzy.vrm
yeah.......
NekoInc, MSPM
Latency would be a major thing, though. But I could see this working with a lot of songs.
NekoInc, MSPM
Strangely enough, the first one that comes to mind is Blue Man Group's "Shake Your Euphemism", with the idea that it's specifically trying to cause you to crack up and lose focus.
RobotApocalypse
do all the notes client-side so lag only affects ability timing?
Quinneapolis
the issue is that your position affects how attacks are targeted
RobotApocalypse
the timing of it kicking in for other players i mean
Quinneapolis
so if everyone is hit by a splash attack, you need to know instantly if other players were close enough to you for you to get hit by multiple of them
RobotApocalypse
true. but i think as long as there isn't lag on the notes everything else should be manageable unless the latency is REALLY high
NekoInc, MSPM
At the 4-person scale, you may also be able to get away with a Rollback-style netcode to mitigate?