Platinum
So, I'm a little so-so on the Tasha's Cauldron leaks. But...
Platinum
Tasha herself kinda grows on you.
Platinum
Platinum
Platinum
she knows what she's about
Platinum
Platinum
hm
Platinum
Sorted Car
Shard
Huh. Peace Domain is a bit powerful.
Platinum
It's from a UA, so
Shard
Yeah. I mean, it would have been playtested, but even a once per turn +1d4 to a throw can be a lot.
Platinum
Right?
Shard
I DO like the spell list additions.
troiae
this is an absurd amount of leaks, i think there's a hole in the bottom of tasha's cauldron
troiae
but honestly as someone not too enthusiastic about dnd generally, i really like the flavor of the subclasses in it
Platinum
Yeah, this is definitely a batch of Fantasy Grounds screenshots
Platinum
I don't like 5E for a variety of reasons.
Platinum
But since I was recently teaching some folks how to play D&D, we went with 5E because that's the current one that they'd find the most players with.
Platinum
So I've had to keep an eye on things.
Platinum
I find some of these things to be... pretty OP, but some of the concepts are neat.
troiae
we're possibly running through curse of strahd at some point Soon (tm), and while we've already made our characters, i'm excited for how some of the flexibility options might let things play out
Platinum
Are you one of the ones in Zita's experimental group?
troiae
yup! resident pally here
Platinum
neato, I've been hearing her talk about playing that and I've been interested in seeing how she does.
Platinum
I almost had her in an earlier edition game at one point.
troiae
better luck next time!
AnabelVIII
keeps threatening to run 3.5 for us
troiae
which is a whole pile of intimidating clown dice
Platinum
Yeah, some people have expressed the opinion that 5E is intimidating because there's so many numbers and I keep sweating and looking at 3.x
Shard
...I started in AD&D 2e and I'm just staring at the very idea.
Shard
There is so much less math in 5e.
troiae
she really wants that dragonlance campaign 😔
Platinum
no
Platinum
no dragonlance
Shard
I mean. If the original writers weren't douches, there might have been an update.
Platinum
dragonlance is banned unless the kender and the heroes of the lance go kaput
troiae
5e can't scare me after shadowrun though, and i'm really looking forward to seeing how zita does strahd and runs our very dice chaotic group through DND
troiae
lmao i think her idea is to run us through as the heroes of the lance instead? and to ruin the day of tanis. probably mostly that last one.
Platinum
if you run into tanis, grab that bearded half-elf and spend five hours stomping him in the nuts
Platinum
What's your party comp, btw?
Shard
You only get into Shadowrun amounts of dice with rogues, so no worries.
troiae
but what about the unending agony of being stuck eternally between worlds, knowing that humanity is as ephemeral as the fragile wisps of dandelion seeds blowing in the wind -- haha just kidding can't do it
Platinum
I was pretty okay with Tanis, unimpressed overall but okay, up until the "three days boning my evil ex" thing
troiae
re party comp: we've got my elf hating paladin of the raven queen, we've got a knowledge domain cleric, we've got a storm sorc tiefling, and we've got Diana Jones, Human Wizard Archaeologist (tm)
troiae
she rolled on the archaeology table and got a hat and we're all very proud of her
Platinum
HAT!
Platinum
y'all're gonna be suffering if you need thiefy things done
troiae
i rolled up as a dexadin (17 starting dex) so she's..sort of off-brand rogueish. stealth and thieves tools prof, but no slight of hands
Platinum
oop
troiae
me [handshake] diana jones: robbing strahd and saying it belongs in a museum
troiae
i was determined to not be the most tanky member of the party for once but somehow i still am. absolute noodle party
Platinum
ffft
Platinum
A bunch of nerds
troiae
both diana jones and the sorc have 7 HP, may the raven queen be with us bc death house will not
Platinum
Sorry, I'm just
Platinum
marveling at the galaxy brains in wotc who thought that anything involving ravenloft ought to be aimed at low level parties with little D&D experience
troiae
zita's problem now :''')
troiae
what are we doing? we don't know! is it our best? possibly! possibly not!
Platinum
fft
troiae
also re: tanis my truly courageous take on him was that if this were shadowrun, he would actually be an elf poseur
troiae
you can't change my mind because based on my osmosed knowledge of dragonlance i'm right
Platinum
Pity our newbie player, they got tired of D&D and then got the idea that CoC sounded fun
Platinum
so now we have someone crafting a Call of Cthulhu for her.
Platinum
(and hating me because I've read the pulp novels she could easily rip off)
troiae
that's just when you swear that one person to secrecy, like me and my star wars game with the other old republic soul
Platinum
Tanis McDickwad, the man whose first instinct on meeting an elf princess who saw that he was a half-elf was to stammer out about how a human raped his mom.
Platinum
ahaha
troiae
how else are you supposed to win a woman's heart?
troiae
& ngl i'm envious - CoC is one of those things i've always wanted to play but has fallen apart with every irl group attempt
AnabelVIII
You are right Paige and my loxodin can half tank so like
Platinum
she just made him feel dumb by being all "So why're you announcing that you're ashamed of your heritage to me?"
AnabelVIII
Between all four of us we have one full tank and half a rogue
Platinum
And maybe two thirds of a bard.
troiae
strahd will never know what hit him (trumpeting loudly, at high speeds)
Platinum
CoC is one of those that can be really hard to do right.
AnabelVIII
And ye the idea would be to run you all as the heroes of the lance (gag) and tell a proper damn story
Platinum
Because everyone's gotta have the right tone.
troiae
well both my pally and the sorc have 18 charisma and i've got an instrument too so technically there's nothing stopping us from singing our hearts out
troiae
we're an incredibly pro party composition that got groupon discounts for every other class
Shard
How are you only at 7 HP for a Paladin?
Platinum
See also my often told story about a dude who showed up to a 1920s CoC game armed with a shotgun and two miniguns hidden under his trench coat.
troiae
oh no, i'm at 13 HP - it's the wizard and sorc that are at 7
Shard
Okay, that makes more sense.
troiae
oh wait i lied, the wizard may actually have 6 HP
troiae
it's fine we're super prepared we have spiritually a whole tank between the four of us, Sort Of
troiae
totally unrelatedly love that tasha's expanded healing spell list for paladins!
Platinum
It looks like wizards are getting the most new spells, but everyone else getting some is good.
Platinum
Honestly, like
Platinum
One of the big problems I'm having with 5E atm is, like
Platinum
we wouldn't need everyone and their mother having three different ways to heal themselves if they'd buffed defense at the same time they were buffing monster to-hit rates
Platinum
what're 1/2 HD monsters doing with, like, +4 and +5 to hit?
Platinum
They just really upped the offensive capabilities of the monsters and failed to up anyone's defenses to compensate, only their offenses and recoveries.
Platinum
Honestly, like, if it's run just slightly wrong, 5E can be more of a meatgrinder than almost any other edition.
Shard
Why is a wizard nearly dumping CON?
AnabelVIII
they're a wizard, they don't need it
Shard
Concentration spells are a thing.
AnabelVIII
squishies can stand behind my character, the loxodon
AnabelVIII
she has a trunk and a shield and several very polite suggestions that violence is perhaps an inauthentic method of communication and conflict resolution but if you insist....
troiae
wizard really wanted that dex and charisma for those indiana jones vibes, and then did point buy while the rest of us rolled
troiae
maybe we'll just strap her to the loxodon's back, baby carrier style
troiae
i don't have any deep thoughts on the mechanics of 5E but that's part of why i'm looking forward to actually seeing it in action, considering how :|a i am about people trying to make it into the does everything kitchen sink setting
Platinum
Man, like
AnabelVIII
honestly D&D does one thing really well and it's dungeon crawling, the end
Platinum
I'll admit that D&D is versatile
AnabelVIII
its not actually that versatile!
Platinum
but as time goes on, it loses its versatility.
AnabelVIII
there are just a lot of different potential flavors of dungeon crawling!
Platinum
Because it keeps going higher and higher fantasy.
Platinum
Yeah, it's really only meant for dungeon crawls, but there are lots of coats and flavors you can swap in there.
Platinum
But in a world where everyone and your mother can fart magic because that's just how classes these days roll, it's, y'know. Harder to capture the lower fantasy feel.
AnabelVIII
vancian magic was so good for low fantasy settings honestly
AnabelVIII
but yeah like at a certain point your dungeon crawls have to become "steal the jewels from God's spectre" or its just not a challenge
Platinum
Honestly, I was always questioning the logic of Vancian magic until I actually read some Jack Vance.
Platinum
And I was like "So that's how that works. I wish this was built in explicitly!"
AnabelVIII
5e actually did a decent job of explaining it I thought? for all they actually modified it
Platinum
Nah, like, why it works, sorry.
AnabelVIII
i kinda dig the modificiations though, it takes it from "this works best in a narrative" to "this is viable in a ttrpg while retaining the limitations that make it intersting"
AnabelVIII
lmao I never worry about why things work in D&D
Shard
That's fair. Man, I always think I'm not a min maxer...and I'm probably not. But I apparently have opinions.
Platinum
Like, the idea that spells were alive and wanted to be loose and that the reasons wizards could only stock up on so many was because if they crammed to much in the spells would melt their brains.
Platinum
So they had to train their minds to contain all that power.
AnabelVIII
they work that way because that is the rules, D&D lore is whatever the DM needs it to be
Platinum
And if a normal person tried to read a wizard's spellbook and memorize something, it'd blow their minds.
AnabelVIII
yeah, I knew that, I just always toss D&D lore out the window first things. tend to view it as a skeleton to wrap my own meat around
AnabelVIII
so the limitations on magic was just "magic is hard, kay?"
Platinum
eh, sometimes I do, sometimes I don't, I just like reasons for things to work out and that reason hit me like a thunderbolt.
AnabelVIII
D&D has the shallowest lore and that's okay
Platinum
Mechanically, it appealed to me more as a strategy player and worldbuilding wise it worked for me more than "Magic is hard"
AnabelVIII
i see D&D as first and foremost a strat/tactics game? i mean it comes from wargaming
Platinum
And I never really dug the "Oh, wizards go out and almost kill themselves if they cast a spell" like Dragonlance novels portray it because like
Platinum
how do you get anyone casting huge spells if a first level spell has them coughing blood
AnabelVIII
so the reasons why the magic works that way weren't important to me, they worked that way because game balance and the in universe reason was "/mysterious hand wavings/ magic! very hard! passing out now! goodnight!"
AnabelVIII
i mean that was also specifically raistlin
AnabelVIII
ive seen his sheet
AnabelVIII
he had like, no con
AnabelVIII
and also a lich attached to his soul leeching his magic energies to sustain itself
AnabelVIII
a whole thing
Platinum
I approach D&D as a strategy/tactics thing, too, but I also like to have reasons for things because that's just me.
AnabelVIII
so like in universe wizards aren't coughing blood after first level spells? they just can only go so long before they are tired
AnabelVIII
like how a fighter can onlyy deliver so many heroic plate-crunching blows
AnabelVIII
and wizards dont get physically tired from spellcasting iirc, they just run out of magic brain
AnabelVIII
the physical penalties are optional fluff with no mechanica drawback unless you're doing some wack casting from HP shit
Platinum
like I'm saying I approach it first the same way you are, I just like to have reasons and I wish that D&D had included that specific bit for the Vancian system.
AnabelVIII
in like what sense tho?
AnabelVIII
because D&D is mostly mechanics?
AnabelVIII
so did you want it to be a mechanic that wizards bleed out the ears or...? i am confused
Platinum
No, I just wanted some kind of flavor reason for the Vancian system. I know why it's in place mechanically, I like it mechanically, and I know the history of it game-wise.
Platinum
We have flavor reasons for druids and paladins and why they're different from fighter/clerics and nature clerics.
Platinum
And have since the very beginning.
AnabelVIII
i mean the flavor reason is, "magic is hard, whatever." we also don;'t have clear flavor reasons for why druids and rangers are different things
Platinum
Yes we do.
AnabelVIII
except "mechanically, ranger and druid are differnet flavored"
AnabelVIII
also how magic works is gonna differ between settings?
AnabelVIII
by 3.5 at least D&D was really focused on homebrew; no point saying "magic works like THIS' if someone is going to say "actually this time they work by having sexual relations with psychically bonded giatn robots"
AnabelVIII
(name that transformer's series)
Platinum
The differences between rangers and druids are like
AnabelVIII
i just skimmed my PHB real fast, and magic is summarized as "caster, through study or divine inspiration, fills their mind with almost-done spells. Once they've done that, they have one final word or gesture which releases the spell into reality. See charts for details"
Platinum
Rangers are forces of good and they're nature-y fighters. Loner trackers, scouts, etc. who specialize in fighting giants and such who can learn from druids but aren't about druidic beliefs themselves.
AnabelVIII
which is basically all the information you need, and the rest you can improvise based on your individual PC's flavor
AnabelVIII
yes but druids can also be good and both classes have access to spellcasting
Platinum
Druids are forces for balance and neutrality that're worshipers of nature and want to preserve life above everything else.
Shard
Our ranger and druid are kinda besties with the paladin (Oath of Ancients).
AnabelVIII
well, no, druids want to preserve balance mostly, not life. part of nature is death in its appropriate time
AnabelVIII
but like, in terms of what each class can do, you can only argue that druids aren't rangers with an attitude or rangers aren't druids who interfere too much in very broad terms
Platinum
Yeah, when it's appropriate, but they're not gonna let someone who comes to them, begging for aid, die just 'cause.
AnabelVIII
and ranger being a force of good also isn;'t specified
AnabelVIII
i played a ranger who was way more druid in her attitudes
AnabelVIII
...i mean, yes they can? if the player decides and it doesn't violate alignment?
Platinum
And here's where edition clash comes in, 'cause my formative experiences with D&D come from earlier editions where the split is as I said.
AnabelVIII
and a druid can take pity on a dying thing that should be left to die, these are all allowed
Platinum
Non-LG Paladins and non-TN Druids just aren't a thing I'm a fan of because those were balancing bits.
AnabelVIII
no, I'd say its more of a "how do you run alignment?" thing
AnabelVIII
a moment of pity isn't breaking alignment if it's not a habit, afaic
AnabelVIII
but like the actual discussion was "how much flavor does D&D need"
AnabelVIII
the description of vancian magic in 3.5 was pretty clear about "head can only hold so much magic" without violating copyright or giving people no space to flavor as they like
AnabelVIII
which is my preference
Platinum
I'd actually rather ditch this discussion because it's more irritating than fun by now.