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Can someone explain the kpop obsession to me? No judgement, I just don't understand how it can be so absorbing? Like with fans buying multiple CDs to get different pics of members, for the different singles on each CD, etc.
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Or how fans feel like they have a real relationship with an idol?
goose7488
tbh i don't get it either... i can understand it with kids cause that's how i was as a kid, but full grown adults doing it is weird... not to mention kpop idols are treated like garbage by their managing companies usually. i like asian music but not to the lengths these fans seem to go.
caviar9158
same, that and I don't get how they can understand what they're saying because they sing in korean.
miso9286
I'm guessing this stemmed from my plurk 
- Sarah
- Sarah
waffle2153
i dont get it.
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miso9286: Naaah, I've actually had questions for a while lol. I have a friend who is obsessed with a couple different Japanese groups and she has the same sort of characteristics.
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She talks about idols a lot. Probably a 50/50 split between actual friends and then idols.
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I know a lot of random stuff about idol culture though I've never been into any of them to begin with lol.
miso9286
I can't speak for other kpop groups, but with BTS (which is the main group I like, and I'm 29 btw), they spend a message of self-love, light, positivity, and acceptance that people of many ages, races, gender identities, and walks of life can relate to. hundreds of thousands of fans send them messages about how their music lifted them out of depression,
rabbit7582
Really not that different from Beliebers and stuff, just a different country. Some people are super into kpop and some just like the music.
rabbit7582
Every idol, in fact, has a subset of fans that are just...endlessly dedicated to them and work really hard to stream their videos so it can go up in view count and make that star look good. You can also see examples of this in the Taylor Swift community, to compare.
miso9286
helped them through multiple bad times, gave them hope, and helped them not feel so alone in this crazy world we live in. it's not just a kid thing; I know several people in my age group (and some even older!) who love BTS. it's not just a bunch of "crazy teenage girls" (as some news outlets have said we are). the appeal to BTS is not only their talent,
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rabbit7582: But there's a massive financial piece to it that I've never seen in any western fans. Like kpop/jpop fans will spend hundreds (if not more) on merch, lotteries to get into concerts, and then some.
rabbit7582
Oh that's due to how hard it can be for some groups to climb the ladder. I guess it's like their version of payola but not really?
rabbit7582
Companies in Korea just look at a group and see numbers that determine the group's success. So the more albums fans buy, the more their videos stream, companies see money and think that group is more profitable. It's all about the numbers.
miso9286
but their relatability, their stories, their messages of hope, and their drive to want to make the world a better place. millions of ARMY (BTS's fanbase) have donated to multiple charities, because they're inspired by BTS's good works. yes we're dedicated, yes we spend money on their albums and merch and concert tickets and whatever else, BUT!! it's not
rabbit7582
it isn't everything, the numbers thing is just a facet of the culture.
rabbit7582
but to answer OP's question, that's the financial part that makes some fans push to buy albums and stuff.
miso9286
only because of a need to have it. it's not because it's a trend. it's because it makes fans feel closer to them. BTS post on Twitter quite often saying they love us. they dedicate things to their fanbase, like songs, videos, and projects. so no, it's not just a money thing!
miso9286
it might be only about the money for some groups but... it's not the case for BTS
rabbit7582
Also the more financially successful a band is, the faster those group members can pay companies back for debuting. Every person who even trains to be a kpop star, incurs debt for training and all that. It can be a while of touring and singing that you even manage to turn a profit.
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Hmmm, that makes sense.
ಠ_ಠ
Financially it's you're just voting with your money, essentially, to keep your favorite group running
rabbit7582
It helps the group to not quit. That's the sad part.
miso9286
ehhhh it depends on the group, and the record company behind that group
goose7488
Grueling gym routines, restrictive diets, and no dat...
ಠ_ಠ
I guess I'm just lost on the extreme emotional connection some fans seem to develop? I understand wanting to support someone who has a positive message, but some people talk about these idols like they're their actual friends?
miso9286
some record companies in Korea are absolute shit and treat their artists badly
rabbit7582
Not all companies charge debt to their trainees but quite a few do and it's bad.
goose7488
Slave contract - Wikipedia
rabbit7582
This is why there's been a demand for better treatment of idols. This shit is killing people in certain cases. It's too much pressure on them, not to mention the mean comments online and etc.
ಠ_ಠ
Oh yeah, there are some pretty shit companies out there that are just slave drivers. The stories some of those guys come out with about diets or relationships are insane.
rabbit7582
I mean, think of Sulli.
miso9286
yeah, Sulli, and Jonghyun from SHINee, and now Taemin from the same group has been talking about how depressed he is lately. it's so fucking bad.
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I don't think I'd ever want to be famous kpop style.
miso9286
and Sulli and Jonghyun were both under the same record company, so you'd think that would tell them to treat their idols better, but nope. it's fucked up.
rabbit7582
you also can't date while you're an idol.
miso9286
rabbit7582: it depends on the record company an idol is under. YG Entertainment artists, can not date. SM Entertainment artists, can. Big Hit Entertainment artists, don't have the time
rabbit7582
Confessions Of A Former K-pop Idol (ft. Crayon Pop) ...
here's a member of Crayon Pop and how her managers charged her with debt and mistreated the group.
miso9286
another group called B.A.P disbanded because of mistreatment and mismanagement
miso9286
they had so much potential but their record company squandered it
rabbit7582
sometimes if you are super shit management to a group and a fan is really mad about it, they might hack your site to insult you like that one group recently lol
miso9286
yeah kpop fans get super heated if their favorite artists are mistreated in any way, which is in part where the emotional connection comes in
rabbit7582
also Blackpink didn't get many songs this last year or whatever and their fans rented a van, and parked it outside their company's group to blast the group's music as protest for them not getting more song releases.
rabbit7582
honestly, I wish someone had done that to P. Diddy with Cassie
rabbit7582
SHE DESERVED BETTER.
miso9286
I don't stan Blackpink as much anymore because their record company is shit and I can't bring myself to support the company
miso9286
but yeah that's another example of companies mistreating their artists
wine4845
obsession with pop/rock/etc band is nothing new. The Beatles was first of its kind. each generation has something for the girls to love and scream and obsess about. Kpop is current flavor since they have very sleek videos, good songs, dancing, and basically the only thing out there for the girls.
rabbit7582
oh god and JYP telling one of the skinniest girls in Twice (Momo) to lose weight, that was nuts
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50kg is the something like the max weight for female idols, yeah?
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That seems insane to me
rabbit7582
miso9286: oh hey who do you listen to? I like Twice, LOONA, Stray Kids, Red Velvet, NCT, and IZONE
berry7916
As a serious record collector, I have done the multiple format thing, but not with K-Pop. I do find the girls extremely cute though.
miso9286
rabbit7582: BTS is the main group I stan but I also listen to Monsta X, Red Velvet, EXO, Twice, and Sunmi!
lion2378
random, no context kpop stans on twitter are....ugh
lion2378
that said, enjoy what you want, just don't let it consume you
rabbit7582
it's annoying when something really sad is said on twitter and someone will respond with a random kpop video. that's so inappropriate and it makes the group look bad.
goose7488
god i hate those no context kpop stan fancams...
goose7488
i report them as spam
lion2378
rabbit7582: couldn't agree more
lion2378
i just dont understand the line of thought for it
lion2378
ape5186: do you think there's an extra mystique there because it's not western culture based though? all those groups you listed were american/uk
miso9286
the songs are actually really good lol
rabbit7582
Some of those songs are so good that if American singers covered them, they'd chart really fast in the US. For example, this one would definitely chart in RnB here: 
[MV] 이달의 소녀/김립 (LOONA/Kim Lip) "Eclipse" Choreograph...
rabbit7582
NCT's Cherry Bomb, same thing. The music isn't just "okay" anymore, it's really got some bite now and that's why it's getting attention in America.
miso9286
rabbit7582: yes exactly!!
rabbit7582
I personally think if Kpop wants to get a firmer hold in America, expose the music more to the black community. We will spread that shit fast lol
rabbit7582
also release a ton of it for TikTok users
miso9286
ehhhh I don't completely agree with that
rabbit7582
Some of kpop is doing better where current trends in pop are falling flat. For example, the "Millenial Woop" is still a thing with pop songs and it... sucks ass. So is the "Zoomer Woop", which uses that same familiar piano melody with synth over and over and over.
rabbit7582
I kinda hope American pop breaks out of that but this also might be why kpop is gaining footage. Current music landscape's a bit monotonous right now.
rabbit7582
gaining a foothold*
rabbit7582
ape5186: That's a bit of a nebulous point, as most music is a recall of popular trends from 20 years ago. Do you have a more direct claim?
miso9286
literally every song by BTS lmao
rabbit7582
I mean, we could also say this of The Weeknd's new Afterhours album, which is 80's synth galore.
miso9286
I don't listen to a lot of English/western music anymore because it's too generic for my personal taste
miso9286
but BTS is different which is part of why I listen to them, along with a myriad of personal reasons because I relate to the lyrics and they make me feel happy
rabbit7582
I don't think there's much in common musically between BSB and BTS, other than they're boy bands. Their music doesn't sound the same at all.
miso9286
rabbit7582: exactly
rabbit7582
Their target demographic is the same, definitely.
rabbit7582
But again, if you want to talk music theory with me... gotta point out some examples!
miso9286
I have things to do around the house (lockdown life, lol) so I'm bowing out of this conversation - rabbit since you're a fellow kpop fan you can friend me if you want! 
You Never Walk Alone [skankbear]
rabbit7582
Ok!
rabbit7582
But yeah the promotion schedules, low pay, etc? Common of music stars. That's not a strong enough point to stick to the wall there.
rabbit7582
That's more of a "that's showbiz" thing, which sucks and deserves to change, but there it is.
rabbit7582
... what is being compared here lol these are just different videos, and wildly different songs being thrown together?
rabbit7582
Not even the chord progression is the same. What is this?
rabbit7582
No, you gave me a video where two bands are being compared...looks like musically and choreographically. They don't match up at all. They're just young guys in a band. Musically they are very different. Like I said, I asked for a music theory conversation. You didn't provide one.
rabbit7582
So let's talk about BSB. They are the creation of a guy who uses what I call the "90's chord progression", which you also find in Britney Spears' early music.
rabbit7582
In fact if you had compared BSB with Britney Spears instead, I'd agree with you because they are far more similar in composition.
rabbit7582
BSB doesn't use the same chords, and that video you linked doesn't show them using the same choreography either. I really wish you could provide some stronger evidence here, but I'd have to say this is boiling down to you painting a lot of pop with the same brush.
rabbit7582
So... meh! Is what it is, but I will let you go for the sake of there not being any deeper conversation about music to actually be had.
rabbit7582
I would love to see some stronger similarities pointed out other than gender and being in a band! lol
rabbit7582
Even Troye Silvan is a stronger case for a male pop star imitating BSB.
rabbit7582
Sivan*
rabbit7582
And for Britney Spears, if you wanted to hear how she'd sound now, you'd go listen to Slayyyter.
snake5448
As someone from the outside looking in, k-pop just feels so cynical.
rabbit7582
ape5186: I know who BTS is actually more like, in fact. Rain.
snake5448
Like, these record companies don't even pretend that these groups arent a bunch of all singing, all dancing, easily replaceable automatons.
snake5448
And for the record, I like pop music. And I'm also aware that there's plenty of "real music" out there that's just as manufactured as any boy band/girl group.
snake5448
But k-pop is just too manufactured for my liking.
rabbit7582
[RAIN/비] 5th - Rainism M/V Full version (2008.10.15)...
This guy was known for his dancing skills and changed the game with kpop. So in comparing boy bands, it's best to look back at the history of the genre and see who came before, before pointing elsewhere for inspiration.
snake5448
also this is the only good k-pop song 
Girls' Generation 소녀시대 'I GOT A BOY' MV
rabbit7582
Inspiration is everywhere, but Rain and BoA were definitely HUGE stars who were also big dancers. BTS would undoubtedly draw from them for their moves and looks.
rabbit7582
ape5186: No friend, I'm a historian. And I also studied music.
rabbit7582
Like I'm literally the person who got excited with ERB's Wolverine vs Freddy Krueger battle because it utilized horrorcore correctly to fit in with Krueger's rapping style. I'm a fan of music, period. 
rabbit7582
ape5186: That's not the argument you made at first. You wanted to paint them all with the same brush. Then you tried to post a video comparing their choreography and music (they are still really different, despite them both being boy bands). I then told you that it's more correct to compare BTS to kpop's main game-changer, Rain.
rabbit7582
I keep telling you how they are only just boy bands and then.. that's really it. They're boy bands. You're talking to someone who, again, studied music theory. I don't see deeper similarities.
rabbit7582
I even pointed out artists that are more similar to BSB because of their music composition and you still aren't understanding me, and want to just label me derisively as a fan, when you're talking to Blanthony Fantano-alike here.
rabbit7582
Since you're just sticking in this to be right, I'm gonna give you a weak 4 and bow out. This has been Rabbit. Music theory... forever.
peanut7013
I blame marketing. Those idols are products, and their managers and production houses are selling dreams. No wonder the first completely numeric idols are out already! Those do not need to be paid!
miso9286
I don't think OP wanted to place blame on anyone...
peanut7013
"Marketing" is not a person. It's a corporate gimmick. It's how things are presented to induce people into consuming the product. Nobody needs three copies of the same CD. Unless it's presented as valuable, a social status marker, etc.
peanut7013
The same way no one needs a Hummer (waste of gas, almost no storage place) or a Ferrari. Or gold toilets. But some people still feel they need them, enough to spend hundred of thousands of dollar on those.
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Uhh yeah, I think this is getting a bit off topic. I was just curious about what motivated fans to pay or interact with idols to the extent that they do lol.
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I didn't mean for any of this to blow up as much as it did lol.
miso9286
ಠ_ಠ: that's what I figured, honestly
peanut7013
So K-Pop (and J-Pop), idols, etc. is just that. And some people just get caught into that game and spend dollars to get the illusion they are have some sort of relationship with those social symbols.
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peanut7013: Okay that's the overall I guess cynical/clinical way of looking at it, yes. But I was looking for a more personal or in-depth look into why people do what they ddo.
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But anyways, got some pretty solid answers so we good fam.
miso9286
ಠ_ಠ: I tried to give my reasons because of how personal it is to me, being a kpop (specifically BTS) stan
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miso9286: I saw those. Thanks
miso9286
ಠ_ಠ: you're welcome! 
miso9286
ape5186: that's not necessarily true specifically with BTS and I could literally write a whole essay about why