Hooded Figure
[doctor who] ok look I haven't even caught up with last season yet but [LAST NIGHT'S SPOILERS]
Hooded Figure
I AM SO HERE FOR RUTH!DOCTOR
tronja307020
RIGHT?
tronja307020
She's full of so much sass and vigor! And dat outfit!
Just Rakath
Ruthless Doctor is the best part of the episode, for sure.
Give us that TARDIS set as the regular TARDIS you cowards.
Hooded Figure
She looks AMAZING and I don't know how they're going to connect her up but look if we can have War Doctor and Hand Doctor we can absolutely have her!!
Hooded Figure
I haven't seen her TARDIS yet I'M SO EXCITE
Just Rakath
It has the round things.
Hooded Figure
YESSSSSSSS GOOD
Hooded Figure
I honestly don't care if she messes up the numbering. That ship has sailed several times over.
Hooded Figure
AU Human Doctor is still out there somewhere too. >>
Hooded Figure
Also Jack shows up, ok, I'm unfortunately not as excite about him because he doesn't ask before kissing people and I VERY DO NOT want them to go "lol she's finally a girl so they can be canonshipped now", but still, w000t!
Hooded Figure
I just really need to catch up, and I've seen various reactions about last season and this season's beginning that concerned me, but we'd BETTER get to keep Ruth!Doctor and she'd BETTER have a good arc.
Just Rakath
Do you want a still of Ruth's console room, asking before I link cause plurk does a thumbnail thing?
Hooded Figure
YES PLEASE
Just Rakath
https://images.plurk.com/3L3khnwwPXMPUr8JM1tQW2.png
Hooded Figure
oh yes this is gorgeous give us it<333
Hooded Figure
And it's a nice callback to how the original console was colored pale green because that looked whiter on film
Hooded Figure
*in b&w
Hooded Figure
DOES THE TIME ROTOR GO UP AND DOWN?
Hooded Figure
I've missed it not being connected to the ceiling!
Just Rakath
I- think it goes up and down, but I don't remember for sure if it does. The wall behind 13 is the display screen (I think, it had a cool hologram screensaver going in the ep).
Hooded Figure
Aaaa, neat! :-D
Hooded Figure
I can't remember which Doctors had the display screen as a big part of the wall but some definitely did!
Hooded Figure
(as opposed to a small cobbled-on screen that is)
Just Rakath
I love the grunge (9+10) and nonsense (11 part a) TARDIS console rooms, but only in the 'he has continued to repair it off of stuff he found in junkyards because time,' but Gods have I missed the stark clean iPod look (and the round things).
Hooded Figure
Yeah. I like a lot of the console rooms from a "this is cool" standpoint but tend to enjoy the brighter and less visually-cluttered ones more.
Hooded Figure
And now I want the fic where the aesthetic gets Thirteen right in the feels about why she hasn't had it like that for a while.
Hooded Figure
The basic classic desktop with minor variations lasted so long.
Hooded Figure
I am so happy they immediately both went "wow no I think I'd remember being you, your fashion sense is awful"
Hooded Figure
100% every Doctor's reaction to a later one
Hooded Figure
"seriously what have you done to my Look(tm), I worked hard on that!!"
Just Rakath
I love the history of why that's the dynamic every Doctor has with every other Doctor.
Hooded Figure
(LOL)
Hooded Figure
Regular tv canon or extended?
Just Rakath
Oh, Troughton and Pertwee just found it amusing to bicker on screen.
Just Rakath
Which became the mold everyone else decided to work from.
Hooded Figure
Aaaah, yes. And offscreen too. There's hilarious convention footage. (haha) I'm so happy their legacy has been immortalized like this.
Hooded Figure
YESSSSSSSSSS she has been confirmed not a parallel/alternate but The Actual Doctor (and is credited as such in the episode)!!!
Hooded Figure
Cynically, I have to note that introducing her midway through another Doctor's run, with no lead-up hype, probably saved the showrunner months of the kind of racist dogpiling we've gotten every time a person of color has been suggested for the role.
Hooded Figure
Jo Martin deserves all the positive publicity a new Doctor should get, but I wouldn't be surprised if they planned this with the bad stuff in mind.
Hooded Figure
Meanwhile I'm going to focus on her AWESOME VOICE and the handholding and she has a TRANSPORTER and AAAAAAAAA~~
Hooded Figure
and pretend she's just going to take Thirteen and company on as her companions for the rest of the season~
Hooded Figure
and really, really hope she gets a proper run, not just a War-Doctor-ish one-off
Exacerangutan
Hooded Figure
Just Rakath
The War Doctor stuff at least makes sense with regards as to why he was this odd one-of. I'm kinda hoping Ruth Doctor is 14, and that there's some cute technobabble to explain away the lack of recognition.
Hooded Figure
Yes please.
Just Rakath
Alternatively she's lying, which would also explain away things.
Just Rakath
(Lying about not remembering, not lying about being the Doctor.)
Hooded Figure
This is SF. There can ALWAYS be a technobabble explanation.
Hooded Figure
oooooh. That'd be interesting.
Tanks4theMemory
I too love Ruth-Doctor and can't wait to see what they have in store regarding her.
Hooded Figure
Although I'm inclined to think she truly doesn't remember because she'd be missing an amazing chance to laugh at all the faces Thirteen is making. (haha)
Hooded Figure
:-D:-D:-D
Hooded Figure
Unless she has the best poker face of any Doctor, which would also be awesome.
Tanks4theMemory
Also introing her this way might be a way of 'testing the waters' so to speak to see what kind of overall reaction a person/woman of color playing the Doctor would get from fans without having the inevitable racist/sexist comments that would come out of the woodwork with a more hyped/publicized announcement.
Hooded Figure
Sadly plausible (sadly because the world should be better than this).
Tanks4theMemory
Yeah.
Tanks4theMemory
Though personally, I'm taking the overall very positive response to the character as a hopeful one. :3
Hooded Figure
This way she skips any pre-new-Doctor harassment and when she finally takes the console helm it'll be old news because she's already the Doctor, no takebacks.
Hooded Figure
Yeah. ^^
Hooded Figure
OHHHHHH I get why everyone's speculating that she has to be a really early Doctor -- saw another clip and she doesn't seem to recognize the sonic screwdriver. Which was introduced in the middle of Two's era. Which would mean she can't be between Two and Three.
Hooded Figure
Which would make it really likely that she's the Zeroeth Doctor.
Hooded Figure
BUT she already has the TARDIS and didn't Moff already show Bootleg!One taking it? Which I was mad at at the time, partly for the idiotic use the plot made of Clara, and partly because I didn't really want to see that far back.
Hooded Figure
But since we did, I'm 100% open to it being changed, because I didn't like that plot and would be perfectly happy to have it.... shall we coin Johnsoned for the version of Jossed which retcons actual canon?
Hooded Figure
...or does retcon fill that niche already XD
Hooded Figure
And even if it's a fairly recent thing to introduce an out-of-order Doctor (/eyedart at the Valeyard), it's not new for any Doctor to have a memory full of holes (/eyedart at Eight) or for the show to contradict itself (/eyedart at the three incompatible accounts of the events involving the Mary Celeste).
Hooded Figure
This is a show where it really isn't unusual for retcons to change the meaning of things (/stares at Genesis of the Daleks) or for big reveals to never be mentioned again ("half-human on my mother's side").
Hooded Figure
and honestly
https://66.media.tumblr.com/746007c46e96d232845df5ca31d6f471/0ea10bf5019c432f-47/s500x750/33e57c89313207a84635a3eb97c352bd9815fe82.jpg
Hooded Figure
I'm tired of not having fun pretending this continuity isn't already a mess.
Exacerangutan
ppffff
Hooded Figure
XD
Exacerangutan
I mean I'm personally of the opinion that the answer to a messy setting is not to just tip the whole thing over and stomp around in it, but then I'm a worldbuilding addict who gets annoyed by the implied density of the planetoid in Alien not making sense
Tanks4theMemory
Yeah the 8th Doctor TV movie is... special in all the the best and worst ways, but the rest of continuity isn't all that much less convoluted.
Exacerangutan
it has some fun parts, but every time I try to rewatch it I fail to get past the opening
Tanks4theMemory
It's very, very 90s. Right down to the CGI that doesn't hold up at all. X3
Exacerangutan
ahaha
Exacerangutan
I mean it's very 90s but it's also very "well here's a defunct property we can squeeze a movie out of" XD
Exacerangutan
intellectually I get that not everything is a labor of love by people who value consistency and understand and value the source material, but I still wish everything was that
Hooded Figure
Oh, yeah, I do get that. But, like. There's plenty of other This Episode Was Badly Written incidents.
Exacerangutan
yeah absolutely
Hooded Figure
And pretty much every time, it's a writing thing, not a Doctor thing: characters and actors who deserve better than the story they got. Sometimes retcons make them better -- see that Eight minisode.
Hooded Figure
(speaking of Eight: this XD)
https://66.media.tumblr.com/a2627ab8da958e01ab4ba618608d7551/tumblr_nalpehcgyB1qkyme2o1_500.png
Hooded Figure
I'm an interstitial worldbuilder, so when there are cracks in canon, my first instinct is to make art out of it.
Exacerangutan
oh yeah for all the problems I've had for the last like 5 seasons of DW, I don't blame any of the actors
Hooded Figure
I have problems all the way back to Nine. But really the only reason I don't have the same about all the earlier Doctors is that they were done by the time I got into fandom and those discussions had been had already.
Exacerangutan
I mean there's "I have problems" and there's "I only kept watching out of a sense of duty" XD
Hooded Figure
(Like. I hate that Nine left Adam back in his own time with a clickhole in his head, and I hate the "I only take special people with me" thing. I hate "doesn't she look tired?" I hate what happened to Donna. I hate the gun thing.
Hooded Figure
I hate cannibal!Master and the Statue of Liberty angel and River being reduced to a ghost whom Eleven doesn't acknowledge because his pain is more important. I haven't even been able to get through Twelve because of his constant negging.)
Exacerangutan
Yeah, I get you.
Hooded Figure
(I've only recently started to put together how it's more exhausting reacting to an open canon because things like this happen and it hits right now instead of being a past thing that no one can do anything about anymore.)
Exacerangutan
...I'm usually willing to play along with things that at least make sense (e.g. I was not happy about Donna but unfortunately the mindwipe made some sense, and about 1000 times more sense than Metacrisis!Donna) but some of them are just "what was even the point???"
Exacerangutan
e.g. cannibal!Master and neggy!Twelve
Exacerangutan
...which he gets better about, sort of, but it takes him like a whole season, and then the next season is all about him being a bad influence on Clara?????
Hooded Figure
(doh)
Exacerangutan
yeah that's why I tend to think of s8-10 problems eclipsing the other ones
Hooded Figure
I think I'm less able to play along when the characterization feels wrong to me, for similar reasons to your focus on worldbuilding.
Hooded Figure
Unfortunately even that isn't without precedent. See: Four's abominable behavior around Leela, Six's violence towards Peri.
Exacerangutan
like... Eleven ignoring Riverghost was not great, but I felt like it was clearly a failing on his part, not a blithe statement on the priority of manpain but this of course may just be me fixficcing Eleven in realtime in my head
Exacerangutan
I mean, when it's a flaw in characterization, rather than the story going in a direction I don't like, I have a much harder time swallowing it //points at the talk about Twelve//
Hooded Figure
I didn't feel the show treated it like a failing or did anything to fix it for River, but also, I haven't watched it since.
Exacerangutan
...well it's not like it's a great episode that demands rewatching.
Hooded Figure
XDDDD
Exacerangutan
And (typical of Moffat's Characteristic Errors) it pretty much forgets River was there as soon as the plot is moving again
Exacerangutan
despite her saying things that seemed like they should have been relevant but were never really addressed?????
Hooded Figure
lolololololol yep
Hooded Figure
I think I've been going through stuff in re story construction and character arcs and "character growth," and the timing of the showrunners piling on The Doctor Is The Problem, Look How Toxic He Is, He Might Even Do Something Really Wrong, Let's Explore How Badly Messed Up He Can Be was unfortunate for me.
Exacerangutan
yeaaah...
Hooded Figure
All this after I leaned on DW hard to learn how to value my differences from Regular People but still learn to have positive interactions with them and strive to make the world better.
Exacerangutan
I have mixed feelings about some of them (e.g. "doesn't she look tired")... ...I don't love it but I'm not sure I would have liked it much more if he just sort of huffed and left as an answer to what was basically cold-blooded mass murder.
Hooded Figure
It didn't mesh well with things going badly in rl at the same time.
Hooded Figure
I mean, with that, it's not like those were the only two alternatives.
Hooded Figure
And he wouldn't have done it to the Brigadier, with whom he's been in many similar situations.
Hooded Figure
But that would've required actual plotting rather than a sexist throwaway line. :/
Exacerangutan
that being said I think that's more likely with Eleven, who, for all that people accuse Moffat of exaggerating the Doctor's importance as a world-saving hero, I find is generally less likely than Ten to cook up quasi-supernatural punishments for everything he dislikes
Exacerangutan
...maybe I'm just blanking, but I don't remember anything quite like that with the Brigadier. >_> I mean they didn't always see eye to eye, obviously, but...
Exacerangutan
it has been a while since I've seen a Brigadier story tho...
Hooded Figure
Pretty sure he wiped out a whole bunch of Silurians in an ep. And he was always ordering UNIT to fire on things despite Three constantly arguing with him about Shooting Things Bad.
Hooded Figure
/back from stuff, googles
Hooded Figure
"the government were frightened. they just couldn't take the risk."
"that's murder."
Hooded Figure
I think that was the most egregious time, but the Brig solving alien problems with guns became one of the big tropes about him.
Hooded Figure
(meanwhile I just remembered Nicholas Courtney is no longer with us and gave myself a sad :c )
Hooded Figure
And while it made sense to have an angry response to the cold-blooded murder, the plot eventually argued against "doesn't she look tired" as a smart or correct thing for the Doctor to have done (it undid the Britain's Golden Age future and paved the way for Saxon!Master),
Hooded Figure
but then Harriet Jones was killed off heroically instead of any actual discourse between her and the Doctor about what would have been right, which makes the whole thing pointless.
Hooded Figure
But going back to Ruth<Doctor, I feel like the NuDoctors have done even more jumping into bits of their own timeline than the classics did, and there was always a threat of accidentally changing big chunks of their own timeline. (And inconsistent explanations for when and why they remembered those incidents, but nvm.)
Hooded Figure
I really really doubt they're going to actually substitute her for a previous Doctor, which (in my head, right now) leaves Cool New Doctor Is Just Extra And The Timeline Will Have To Deal. XD
Hooded Figure
Hooded Figure
....and then the internet reminded me that the chameleon circuit only broke in 1963 so she can't be from before One, because police box.
Exacerangutan
.......I guess in theory she could be shoved between 2 and 3 and say 3's memory of her was erased, and 3's banishment to Earth was decided on as a safer punishment than conscription?
Exacerangutan
...I'm not super convinced, but trying to work within the constraints of something vaguely resembling continuity and statements made by Chibnall. XD
Hooded Figure
Ha (LOL)
Hooded Figure
She's all the Doctor's drama distilled from between the first and second incarnations XDDD
Hooded Figure
It honestly makes very little sense that the Doctor hasn't been subjected to more cloning/transporter accidents/magic-tech duplication over the centuries. A Thomas Riker incident could explain it, especially since she has a transporter.
Hooded Figure
Idk what he's said aside from "real Doctor no parallel universe," but here's a wild theory. The Time Lords found out the Doctor would eventually destroy Gallifrey so they decided to kill him first. This Doctor is actually alt!Two. She escaped and that's why the Judoon are hunting her.
Hooded Figure
The effects of this have not yet propagated through the timeline (/handwave handwave it's more dramatic that way) but IF I WAS WRITING THIS she and Thirteen, after much drama, would eventually stabilize it so all incarnations, including her, are preserved.
Hooded Figure
(I don't trust them not to go "she sacrifices her existence to preserve Thirteen's timeline," which would be a really bad take.)
Exacerangutan
...so part of my concern is that while there are things that could have been better about War Doctor, etc, it was ultimately a quasi-elegant solution to "the Doctor did a seemingly un-Doctor-ly thing" and was rooted in 9-11's emotional journey and capped off with a nice "even when you think you're doing your worst, maybe you're doing the best you could do"
Exacerangutan
............I'm not sure what this is mounting onto, emotionally, so to speak, or where it's going, and it kind of feels like it's just sort of... trying to rhyme with Moffat and RTD blindly? Like how "the Master destroyed Gallifrey!!!" rhymes with the whole art of s1-7 but in a sort of hollow "so you're just undermining what came before" way, IMO.
Exacerangutan
which, one of my criticisms of Moffat is that he often seems to take something RTD did and Do It More without stopping to think whether more is actually better
Exacerangutan
so this feeling of "oh yeah they did that so I'll also do that" is making me very uneasy
Hooded Figure
Valid concerns, yeah. Idek what I think about Gallifrey because it's been destroyed and undestroyed so many times at this point, but Moff's continual failure to tie his own stuff together (and the continual failure to call him on it
Hooded Figure
or hold him to any kind of story-structure accountability) does leave me with Concerns over how much that's baked into the production routine at this point.
Hooded Figure
And leaves me worried about what I'll see when I finally do watch the past season-and-a-half.
Hooded Figure
I love this new Doctor's energy and want her to be securely and satisfyingly established, and there's so much we don't know yet and so many ways it could go wrong.
Hooded Figure
And I can prate as much as I want about If I Was Writing It, but I'm not.
Hooded Figure
And the fact that she's the first black woman Doctor makes it vital that they get it right, even though it shouldn't have to because the show and the people it's worried about pleasing should have already been ready for this.
Just Rakath
The War Doctor was a solution to Chris not coming back to play Nine though. It's important to remember that a lot of the writing calls there were practical cast availability.
Just Rakath
The framing is 'The doctor is ashamed' but the intitial plan is that was Nine.
Hooded Figure
Do we know if Chris wouldn't come back for that just because he'd already decided not to interface with the DW production machine again, or if he didn't like the story?
Just Rakath
He didn't like production. He was so hurt by how he was treated on the show he wouldn't come back even under a new showrunner.
Hooded Figure
(I remember there were various thinkpieces about it at the time but the BBC was putting out false information about him while he was still the Doctor so)
Hooded Figure
/nodnodnod
Exacerangutan
I think he was mad at the BBC in general but may have been DW production in particular too
Just Rakath
It was definitely a 'fuck the BBC' mindset.
Exacerangutan
...it sounds dismissive to say it that way, but he was mad about pretty legit things.
Hooded Figure
yeah
Just Rakath
Oh, no, I'm not dismissing his anger at all. It's valid.
Exacerangutan
sorry I meant the way I said it XD
Just Rakath
But it's a very specific hurdle to write around given we needed a Doctor in the Time War without the Doctor written in the Time War.
Exacerangutan
"he was mad at the BBC" sounded too much like "u mad???"
Hooded Figure
yeah we're all on team Chris here XD
Hooded Figure
honestly though why didn't they use Eight? did they film the short thing before knowing if Chris would come back?
Exacerangutan
but yeah given the constraints I honestly can't think of a much better solution than something at least similar to War Doctor and it was nice to have Hurt show up when we had the chance
Just Rakath
They decided on War Doctor I think because of how long it's been since Eight?
Just Rakath
Moffat pivoted into a 'stand in for old school who' so he could be stuffy and grown up compared to Tennant and Smith.
Just Rakath
Who are children.
Just Rakath
Which lead to the mini to explain the regeneration from Eight to War.
Hooded Figure
Yeah, Hurt!Doctor took what he was given and did a great job
Exacerangutan
that and he made a hell of a lot more sense as written than 12 did, I'll say that much
Hooded Figure
(and it is always nice to see Doctors who aren't twelve years old )
Just Rakath
(I always try to keep track of retcons for practical reasons vs. retcons because writers got bored.)
Hooded Figure
--not having seen most of Twelve either, I can't comment on that XD;;;;; )
Just Rakath
Twelve's first season was... a lot. After that they found the right groove for him.
Hooded Figure
(I'd like to see your list some time! :-D)
Exacerangutan
I'd argue they didn't find the right groove until sometime in s8 or 9 when they started letting Capaldi have more control over the character
Exacerangutan
...I never liked 12 half as much as I liked Capaldi talking about his headcanon.
Just Rakath
If you want a good Doctor Who example of a retcon because the writers were bored: How the Angels worked in Series 5.
Just Rakath
All of that was just to end up with Amy surrounded by Angels (and so Amy's eyes were closed to do the scene from the Series finale during that plot).
Hooded Figure
/o\
Exacerangutan
yeah
Just Rakath
It was all meant to make the Angels 'more creepy' but it was honestly non-functional.
Just Rakath
The only practical uses were 'AngelBob talking allowed for some better exposition' (but honestly you could write around that), and the Series finale set-up.
Exacerangutan
...as much as the tie-in with the finale was really good, it was not a great use of the Angels
Just Rakath
Oh, the one thing Moffat has on the other two showrunners is 'fuck around with non-linear storytelling and make it work.' But yeah, the Angels were not great here.
Exacerangutan
I'd prefer if they'd found some other reason than "Weeping Angel magic???" for her to have to keep her eyes closed >_> but
Exacerangutan
...as long as he has constraints (or thinks he does) Moffat's cleverness can pay off
Exacerangutan
...but when he realizes he can just do whatever and no one will stop him
Exacerangutan
he ends up outsmarting himself and trying to do more things at once than he can actually keep track of
Exacerangutan
and/or tramples on characters to Do The Thing
Just Rakath
Angels in Manhattan, barring the stupid thing I know the stupid thing, let's forget the stupid thing for a second, is great in all ways other than the stupid thing.
Exacerangutan
haha
Exacerangutan
unfortunately it
Exacerangutan
well
Exacerangutan
it looms pretty large, you could say
Just Rakath
Puns? Really? (I love puns that's legit.)
Exacerangutan
I mean that and it was a pretty painfully contrived excuse to get rid of the Ponds in a way that didn't really make a lot of sense
Just Rakath
I'll argue against that, the weight had to be on Amy's choice again.
Just Rakath
So the stakes had to be 'Rory or the Doctor' and no taksies backsies.
Just Rakath
Fucking up the time stream around Manhattan to the point the Doctor can't go back there/then is a solid enough technobabble to work. And creating a paradox is a big enough event to make that make sense.
Just Rakath
My only issue with it is the Angel Liberty.
Exacerangutan
well I don't mean that aspect, so much as "now he can never see them again because eventually they'll be buried there" is a pretty weak argument in a show about time travel
Just Rakath
Technobabble for finality is honestly fine, because if you try to make sense of literally any plot in any season from any showrunner your head explodes.
Just Rakath
(Narrative trumps continuity every day and twice on sundays.)
Just Rakath
(Unless its Angel Liberty because that's such a monumentally huge leap to make that I can't do it without a jetpack.)
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