thetaClysm
everyone always seems to talk about time travel plotlines as if they're just... too hard to understand?? and like
thetaClysm
ok so im not gonna act like, oh, i understand it so everyone should understand it, that would be taking my poor self-esteem too far
thetaClysm
but
thetaClysm
i guess i don't really understand what, specifically, gets people about it
thetaClysm
certainly some time travel stories are poorly constructed, and that makes them harder to understand because they're not self-consistent
thetaClysm
but god there's nothing i love more than a big sprawling time travel plot coming together and tying itself up with a bow
TWO OF THEM
i think what it is, is that everyone always has a poorly constructed one in the front of their minds when they think about it
thetaClysm
and then i see people reacting like "but why doesn't it work like xyz other time travel story" --
thetaClysm
... i think we were thinking the same thing just now
Charlie
usually the plot holes in time travel stories are distracting enough that it takes me out of the story
Charlie
for me it's less "time travel sucks" and more "time travel is often done poorly so i tend to avoid it"
thetaClysm
for context i just listened to a podcast where the people were discussing, at length, a specific time travel story and pointing out a bunch of things as plot holes that really weren't plot holes they were just applying the totally wrong framework to the story and it made me want to tear my hair out
Charlie
which one were they talking about?
thetaClysm
ffxiv shadowbringers im not saying specifics because this isn't a spoilerplurk
thetaClysm
ok now that im not Occupied, the long story short: they were getting way too preoccupied with the idea of paradoxes in a story that pretty clearly is built on the idea of multiple timelines
thetaClysm
and also being weirdly skeptical about there being multiple timelines in spite of the fact that the whole story falls apart if there aren't
Charlie
it is true that i am the world's biggest 1 multiple timelines hater
Charlie
actually not true i'm the world's biggest 1 INFINITE timelines hater
Charlie
it's not so much the mechanics as it is the implications that get me though
thetaClysm
infinite timelines are i think not quite solely a time travel concept, so much as a metaphysical framework that time travel will often brush up against in settings that include both things
thetaClysm
i personally don't have strong feelings about it
thetaClysm
multiple timelines i will go to bat for, on the other hand
Charlie
eeeeeh even if there aren't multiple timelines, they kinda bug me
Charlie
if you go back in time to save me but you're just creating a new universe where i don't die, and the me in this universe still dies, then are you really saving me? it's not like it does me any good, it's just creating a clone and saving the clone, basically
Charlie
you might as well just clone me after i die and skip out on the whole "new timeline" thing
thetaClysm
creating a timeline in which you are saved is vastly better than there being no such timeline in the first place
Charlie
i mean......is it??? it's not "me" either way, i still die
Charlie
again you might as well just clone me
Charlie
give the clone my memories, badda bing, badda boom
thetaClysm
not...... really
thetaClysm
from the perspective of the other you, they weren't "created", they just... were
thetaClysm
and then they didn't die, which is usually a preferable state of affairs to dying
Charlie
that's....good for them...........but they're still not "me," i'm still worm food in my own timeline
Charlie
they wouldn't even exist if the timeline wasn't created though?
Charlie
idk it still feels like there's burgeoning implications
Charlie
wish i didn't have so much work to do right now because now all i wanna do is talk about time travel
thetaClysm
i guess if it were me, i would just prefer one timeline where i survive over zero timelines where i survive, even if i was still gonna die from my perspective
thetaClysm
anyways this plurk was meant to be about the mechanics themselves, not their implications
Charlie
if i gotta be dead then no "me" in another timeline gets to live!! fuck those bitches!!! if i gotta die they gotta die too!!!!
Charlie
yeah mechanics are different than implications though, sorry for derailing
Charlie
mechanically, multiverses can make logical sense for time travel
Charlie
infinite universe don't make sense to me but they also aren't necessary for time travel
thetaClysm
actually im just gonna. put my whole rant in response to the podcast here. since im sure as hell not gonna send it directly to speakers of hydaelyn, because no thank you
thetaClysm
(it will be stripped of story details)
Charlie
/gets popcorn
thetaClysm
basically. it doesn't make sense to talk about "paradoxes" in the context of a multiple-timelines story. this is a concept that exists specifically for single-timeline frameworks, and is actually the reason i don't really like single-timeline frameworks
thetaClysm
see, if your system both functions off of a single timeline and makes it possible to change said timeline, it introduces inconsistencies into itself by its very nature
thetaClysm
you can avoid paradoxes in a system like this, but the solutions available to you are doomed to be contrived or overly complicated
thetaClysm
the entire idea of a paradox is that, in a self-consistent system, they should be impossible
thetaClysm
so if a paradox happens, your system is not self-consistent
thetaClysm
this is the problem that multiple timelines exists to solve, because if changes to the timeline create new timelines while leaving the original timeline as it is, there's no way for a paradox to happen
thetaClysm
it feels like a pretty elegant solution to me
thetaClysm
you can change the past and you won't have to worry about. i dunno. being attacked by fucking time gargoyles or something. looking at you, doctor who.
thetaClysm
i dunno if i really have a thesis here, other than that someone talked about something being a paradox while also talking about there being multiple timelines and that just. really cheesed me because it makes zero fucking sense
thetaClysm
look at me, getting heated about fake time travel
Charlie
cheers to that bro
TWO OF THEM
as opposed to real time travel
thetaClysm
yes exactly
Danainai
at least w the time gargoyles they established that they only appeared because it was one of those "it has to happen in every and all timelines, Rose is important later and this has to happen to make her who she is to all of time"
Danainai
idk I thought that was neat but you are totally fair hating it lol
thetaClysm
there are like 5 separate reasons why i am not prepared to argue specifics about doctor who, i just reached for an example that stuck out in my memory at that moment. im sure if pressed i could come up with a different one
Danainai
gotcha
Garza_Bird
i love shitty time travel stories, i barely even pay attention to the mechanics, i'm just, Hell Yeah, Time is an illusion, let's Fuck It Up
Garza_Bird
probly comes from seeing the Terminator movies at a young age
Danainai
Terminator and back to the Future told my brain time is an illusion lmao
Charlie
why does he fade slowly from the photograph??? that doesn't make sense!!!! it doesn't make any fucking sense!!!!!! time doesn't work that way??????? how would he--
Charlie
/i am physically removed from this plurk
Garza_Bird
yesssss! Back To The Future!!