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[kickvic/screech] Because I hate myself and have nothing important to do tomorrow, I'ma bite the bullet here and try to liveplurk Nick's lawsplaining about why a total shutout dismissed with prejudice isn't a bad thing.
Nox
I'd make a pun and say bite the bulleit considering I'll be drinking, but I don't have the money for top shelf bourbon. It's Costco brand rum for me.
Nox
Reviewing the Vic Mignogna Decision
Link is here in case anyone's up for joining in, but it's not gonna be live for about another 40 minutes. Right now it's just the chat messages.
The Night Guard
oh god ok I know he got banned from twitter
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Which are weirdly interesting if only because amid all the screeching there are a couple people going on about nanoparticles and science shit
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Which was unexpected but not unwanted
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Also it features bizarre conspiracy theories like this
https://images.plurk.com/1U2TWb6EZknxo5YJJdbwau.png
lucineblue
=A= they're so... so in denial
Nox
Also full disclosure I have no legal training (I'm a history major, not a lawyer or even a law student) so any legal analysis will definitely have to come from someone more qualified
Nox
I'm just here for the acrobatics. And also maybe to see if I can outdrink Nick.
Nox
Nox
https://images.plurk.com/2H2scadMTtRH4hH6ZA5nEn.png
Jesus, not even Evel Knievel could have made that leap
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IT BEGINS (soon)
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According to youtube, we're just waiting for Screech to start this shitshow
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Aaaaand we're off
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"Today is an interesting day, there's a lot of emotional activity going on"
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Understatement
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Oh look it's Ty
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And we're starting this lawstream complaining about how slow a ferry is to get to a food pavillion.

I feel like this is going to be the only part of the stream where Nick and Ty give out useful advice.
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Oh good now we're going to talk about the case.
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"What happened today? Did Vic lose?"
"No, course not."

Welp
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So- per Ty- the reason this was a flaming garbage barge was because the court ruled out defamation for Marchie, they had to rule it out for everyone else to be consistent
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and it's more efficient to just dismiss everything
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(Sounds fake, but okay)
Uncontrollable
HA|
lucineblue
what
inadequate tits
that;s.... an interesting interpretation of law
Nox
Ty can't confirm an appeal because he hasn't been able to get ahold of Vic yet
Nox
Ohhhh to be a fly on the wall for that phone call
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"What many people seem to be ignoring is that appeals are part of the process. A win is never a win and a loss is not a loss until all the appeals are complete or the time has expired on them." -Screech, somewhat paraphrased because I can't type THAT fast
Nox
(also: no)
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(no one is ignoring that)
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Nick also wants us to know that this case is ripe for appeal! Really!
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Ty seems to believe judicial decisions are basically just statistical probability, which really does explain why he didn't bother even preparing
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("one person's got a 20% chance of getting it wrong, but with an appeals court it's three judges so it's 20% of 20% of 20%" )
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Now they're trying to sort out camera problems with all the efficiency of stereotypical grandparents.
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"Is there anything you wanted to say before we get to the questions?" (N)
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"We are a long way from this thing being over. Assuming my client authorizes the appeal."
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"The system is basically a filter system"

That's not untrue
lucineblue
(the question is, is Vic DUMB enough to appeal.)
Uncontrollable
(is Vic LIED TO enough to appeal)
inadequate tits
hes been dumb enough to tolerate this nonsense for this long
Nox
Ty actually coming out and saying he doesn't believe it's at all likely that the judge was biased because the defendants were women or he was worried about being crucified by Sharon Grigsby (I don't have her name in front of me I STRONGLY suspect I misspelled it)
Nox
So points for that, considering it's a stupid fucking theory
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Also a theory that maybe Chupp ruled this way because he was worried about his personal image- Ty even saying that one's unlikely
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Going into appeals talk now (y'know, that hypothetical one), and bonus: Even per Ty, if the appellate court rules in their favor, the case is sent back down to the trial court level
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...to Chupp.
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"Interestingly there are issues in this case that are appeal points that are split between the circuits and how they deal with them. I'm not saying this case should or even would go to the Supreme Court, but-" (N)

unsurprisingly he has not actually said what any of those points are.
StupidSexyV⚠der
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Though I'd still love to know what logic is behind "THE TEXAS SUPREME COURT WOULD BE INTERESTED TO HEAR THIS!!!" even in the slight opportunity
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"No one should be spiking the football" count 1
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"My people did my jobs perfectly." -Ty Beard
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It's great you're saying it's your fault this thing went down in flames into a fireworks factory, buuuuuut....
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*their jobs, sorry
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trying to watch the chat window and this window
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"It was always in our analytics that it was possible it would go this way" -Ty Beard
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You know, the same guy who said the dumbest law firm in Texas could win this case
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Nick talking about his intern, Ty saying hi to a fellow RPGer
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Presumably he doesn't mean he's roleplaying as a lawyer, but I can't say with certainty
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"If an appeal is filed can Ty attempt to get the Second Amended Petition included, and if so, should he?"

Both Ty and Nick says yes. I have serious doubts about this being accurate.
Nox
He might be able to argue that it should be allowed in in a retrial, but you don't get to add new things to an appeal
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"I made some mistakes, there's no question about that, in my mind at least." -Ty, in a rare moment of clarity
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Ty again confirming he doesn't believe they were a victim of bias with this decision, the judge just didn't see it the way he wanted him to see it.
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(I look forward to watching the ConVics completely ignore this)
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"We're in a tie-breaker." -Ty, sharing his interesting views on halftime
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(personally I'm not sure how 17-0 is a tie, but)
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Someone saying that back in June KickVic was saying Vic would be in jail and his career in shambles and now we're just moving the goalposts.

Can uh...can anyone actually find that?
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Because all I'd ever seen was 1. Everything's going to be dismissed, 2. his career's going to be in flames
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Ty and Nick want us to know that it's as important as the legal case, if not more important, that now the evidence is out there and people can decide for themselves if Vic's a predator
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Which is a hell of a spin to put on this to be sure
inadequate tits
never let this guy judge a sport
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Answering repeat questions from viewers, so it's a little slow
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Nick wants us to know that he received a message today from someone with the ability to make something happen that there's a way to help Vic go into 2020 and get work and keep on getting work.
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(presumably it's Nick, and it's to keep giving to the GoFundMe)
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Ty does confirm he feels like he's got a good chance of things going his way on appeal.
Nox
(haaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahaha)
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Aside: DRINK LIQUOR NICK, YOU COWARD
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Ty again says that this isn't over and it's always about playing the odds, and all real lawyers know this
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Some rando in the chat telling Ty to let Vic know that if he follows through with his aspirations to start his own studio, he would love to provide him with some screenplays he wrote himself including some he wrote when he was "falselyME2"
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If you needed any indication that things for Vic might not be going well
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Ty: Who sits around slagging people all day on Twitter? Who does that?

It's inconclusive whether or not Ty actually knows who the hell he's talking to
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Also trying to walk a weird line between "no one cares what anyone says about you on Twitter" and "but my client was seriously damaged by what people said about him on Twitter"
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Nick busting out his Lemoine impression again, because mocking someone who managed to survive a life threatening disease is always hi-larious
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Somehow this Q&A session has drifted into whether it's possible or a good idea to have AI determine the likelihood of people jumping bail and setting the bonds accordingly
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Some next level shilling, somebody paid to submit a comment for Nick to review to put their own GoFundMe out there
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Nick wants us to believe he said this was always the most likely possibility after that first hearing.
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I distinctly remember that not being a thing he argued after the hearing.
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A few digs at AOC from the superchat contributors, in case you wondered what sort of overlap these people share with the right wingnuts
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Contributor asked if Ty has a favorite D&D character, thank god he said Druid
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My fondness for clerics is safe
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*class, not character
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(For any of you druid players, I'm sorry)
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Chat wants to know if Nick or Ty have ever seen the Joker movie.

Raise your hands if you're surprised this came up.
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"We were never able to guarantee an outcome on the legal side of things" -Ty

:|
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:| :| :| :| :|
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"We've accomplished the primary objective which is to stop people from destroying this man."

All counts were dismissed you fuckberry
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"The ultimate outcome of the trial is irrelevant. It's the evidence that we're after." -Ty Beard

Goalpost sightings have been reported as far as six counties over and they seem to be continuing their travels at breakneck speed
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"You're pissing up the wrong tree, 'cuz we've already won." -Ty Beard sharing...words...
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OH BOY Ty weighing in on Law Twitter
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"The question I'd ask any "expert" out on twitter is if you're so brilliant, how do you have time to be on Twitter?"
Nox
Dumb observation that also catches Nick in the blast radius, and Nick says nothing
lucineblue
...
inadequate tits
does he think real lawyers don't have hobbies and free time
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"We already won, the only question in my mind is how big a win?" -Ty Beard, again, for some damn reason
Nox
And apparently he doesn't because he also framed this in the context of "Well I have 16 hour days I don't have time to be on Twitter"
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And less than five minutes later asked us to wish him luck in a fishing tournament
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Because that clearly takes less time than Twitter y'all
Nox
Ty's off for the night HERE'S NICKY POO
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Weird preoccupation from the chat on the judge dismissing everything just to let Vic appeal sooner
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which Nick kind of dismisses, but if they're dumb enough to believe that's a thing anyone would do I doubt it'll have any effect
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Go Fund Me for Vic sits at just over $251k
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Nick wants to thank everyone for continuing to donate because it's just such a slap in the face to "these whiny people"
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Crack at Greg for having a Go Fund Me for a CPAP machine way past its time frame
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(Gonna go out on a limb here and say that one's probably also inaccurate, especially in comparison to his indefinite "GIVE ME MONEY TO GIVE TO VIC" spree)
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Oh boy now it's time for the lawsplaining
inadequate tits
16 hour days and he still managed to squeeze out that garbage legal doc, late
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Nick wants us to know that it's weird that the court did not consider the unsworn declarations that were filed way past that deadline after Ty withdrew the affidavits
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Also it generates Appeal Points
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(It's not, and no it doesn't)
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Nick says it's not really true that it's not true that the second amended petition added new evidence that wasn't included in the first petition, and that's not true! It only added unsworn declarations!
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I don't know what I typed there since I was staring at the document as he highlighted it
Nox
(and also as he kept verbally backtracking)
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Short version: "Second amended petition didn't introduce anything new, except for the new things"
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Nick wants us to know that it's a terrible citation for a TCPA case to say that adding new evidence after a petition has been filed was a terrible misrepresentation of the case because it's TOTALLY unrelated and is relating to the Texas Medical Liability Act
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Because obviously judges can't infer "hey if it's a fucked up move to add new evidence after everyone's responded in this other case, it's probably fucked up here too"
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"I could be wrong on that"

You are. As a history major I know you are, not even as anyone with a degree in law
Nox
Especially when there's a legal agreement between counsels that you AREN'T going to just be adding new shit leading up to trial after a certain date, and you do it anyway
Nox
"It's weird that he's saying that they disregarded these withdrawn affidavits when he cites them elsewhere"

No, it's not. Law's a lot like history: If you're writing anything on something, you fucking cite what you're talking about.
Nox
That would be why pretty much everything in the case so far (except for Ty's paperwork) has been riddled with footnotes and citations
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Nick going into the TCPA saying that the judge didn't appropriately understand and/or implement the purpose of the TCPA because he only decided it meant the defendants could get out of this lawsuit quickly, not that it meant Vic's lawsuit had merit!!!
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Nick's hinging an argument on Chuck not citing case law in a specific paragraph to make some conclusions about Vic's case which...
Nox
...suuuuuure is a strategy
Nox
I mean I'm no lawyer but I'm pretty sure that's not a requirement for every conclusion.
Nox
Sure, it's great if there's a controversial issue, where different interpretations of different cases may apply
Nox
But I highly doubt it's needed for EVERY. SINGLE. THING.
Nox
And he thinks an appeals court has a high chance of finding this reason to send the case back down for reconsideration
Hyatt
wonder if he's treating appeals as a deadline extension
Nox
Liveplurk from me's gonna go on a quick pause since I need to step away, but if anyone wants to tag in, go nuts
Nox
I'm back, and Nick's of course complaining about the judge saying Vic failed to meet prima facie standard on all the charges.
Nox
And somehow that's very strange and it leaves it wide open for appeal
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Nick says there's no possible way that a prima facie case doesn't exist for defamation against Ron Toye because through a third party he confirmed he made the tweets of his that were cited
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(aside: what)
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Onto Tortuous Interference With Existing Contracts
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Nick wants us to believe there's evidence for existing contracts for every single convention, and that we shouldn't believe our lying eyes and ears, because saying they cancelled their invitations / announcements re; Vic attending
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"Cons don't typically announce someone until there is an agreement on the terms [...] There's your evidence of clear and specific contracts"
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Okay, the problem is, you need to provide the clear and specific contract
Nox
"It exists but we don't have it, take our word for it" is not sturdy legal ground to stand on
Nox
The judge literally asked to see them and then asked why the hell they didn't have affidavits from the cons to this effect
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(rational inference mention 1)
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(also it's in regard to communication from one convention to Vic saying they wouldn't be considering inviting him back for future conventions, and that means OTHER conventions were ALSO planning on it and that's not how rational inference works)
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But those text messages were BRUTAL, he wants us to know
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Nick also wants us to know that this whole thing is just poor legal writing on the part of the Judge
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(because reasons)
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Nick wants us to know how ABSURD it is that Chupp wants us to believe that there's not any clear and specific evidence for any element of any of these claims
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and that he's not even sure if Chupp really believes that
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(Narrator: He did)
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Nick wants us to believe it's weird / lazy on Chupp's part to not rule on the agency of the defendents as representatives of Funimation, only on their employment as independent contractors.
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Look I'm not a lawyer but I guarantee you will never find any company who will willingly describe their contractors as agents authorized to speak on their behalf
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Independent contractor status pretty much exists for the company to distance itself as far as possible from whoever that label applies to
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Nick again states that this whole decision is just a mess. It's a mess. He doesn't know what else to say about it besides it's a mess.
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He thinks Vic's got a strong case for appeal, but it's up to Vic
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He again says that this was the expected outcome
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Which...yes, it was, just not for the ISWV crowd or Nick or Ty
Nox
At least not per any of their statements leading up to it
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Nick also says it's not uncommon at all for there to be district court orders that are vaguely worded or don't cite specific things, but in this particular case it's REALLY BAD AND WEIRD
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Again Nick says he thinks appealing is the right move and the obvious move, but again it's all up to Vic
Hyatt
so will Vic cut his losses and drop it, or will he listen to his cult and grifter lawyers?
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I'm gonna go ahead and say we're probably done with any serious (LOL) legal talk considering Nick's now spending his time waffling back and forth on whether or not he wants to do Twitch tonight
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SUPER CHAT TIME AGAIN [insert airhorn noises]
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Nick, again, wants us to know that the ruling is worded very poorly
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"They don't necessarily need to add the context of the tweets, especially because of how Twitter works. And because it's prima facie."

Nick again failing to understand fucking any of this
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"Is this ruling just him realizing how badly he screwed up and saying I wanna get rid of it, let the appeals court deal with it? I don't know, maybe. I'm not in his head."

I can absolutely guarantee no judge would ever do this
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That is how you get recalled
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Nick maintaining that Ty didn't try to sneak in new evidence after the deadline
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(we're moving through these comments at a fast clip)
inadequate tits
https://imgs.plurk.com/QuW/GmE/eiRwBXrUmkDJsKWjQS8raghCiuJ_lg.gif
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Nick saying Ty doesn't necessarily need to hire an attorney that specializes in appellate cases because his firm does handle appeals cases, but that it's not his place to say and Ty wouldn't necessarily say one way or the other because it's a strategy decision
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Comment from the Netherlands asking what it takes these days to prove to a judge that damages have been done, Nick's response "I don't know."
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Actually I can answer this one:
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SPECIFIC FUCKING NUMBERS
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Granted there's times you don't need those, like in my situation with my apartment, but I mean, that's a preponderance of evidence situation.

Which, if we've learned anything from this entire fiasco, is the sort of thing Ty is completely incapable of ever showing.
Hyatt
I can believe that Nick doesn't know. but that doesn't say much besides displaying his general lack of knowledge
Nox
Oh cool Nick's store has a mug mocking Lemoine with a mosquito sucking on a lemon and saying "West Nile Best Nile"
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In case you weren't completely sure he was an absolute garbage person
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Commenter: "Even if Vic was guilty, Ty would have still been like Jim Donavan, fighting for justice"

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Nick admits he doesn't know who Vic is getting work from
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And the comment goblin bringing it up thinks Vic's just not saying so that the Twitter mobs don't go after them
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As if IMDB or Wikipedia don't just regularly update with this shit
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As a petty aside, I want to smack Nick for pronouncing "Igor" as "eye-gore"
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Hooboy, Nick plans on covering the Trump impeachment hearings
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"It's a very risky move by the Democrats to try and impeach the sitting President."

Nick that's the only President you can impeach
Nox
The others are either already gone or have yet to be elected
Hyatt
it's a moral stance, dipshit. like what your crowd claims Vic's lawsuits are
Nox
Nick wants us to know that he doesn't know what Chupp was thinking with this case, and he doesn't want to try to get in his head because he doesn't understand why he ruled the way he did in this case.
Nox
Presumably because he's never been good with things like cause and effect or connecting dots
Hyatt
maybe he should try reading the transcript
Nox
"Dismissed with prejudice actually makes it easier to appeal."

...no?
Nox
As far as I know it doesn't make it any easier OR harder
Nox
It's dismissed either way. You're appealing it.
Nox
Anyone with legal expertise please clarify if I'm wrong.
Nox
And the livestream is over!
Nox
I can at least confirm I've drank more than Nick, so this wasn't a total loss
Nox
I also feel like the only reason this wasn't as damaging to my sanity as it was for Marc Whipple or any of the other brave Law Twitter users to try this shit is that I'm not a lawyer so I was never offended on a professional level
lucineblue
yeah
lucineblue
this guy is such a snake oil salesman
lucineblue
he's be harking his wares town to town if it was in ey olden days
Nox
He's a walking, talking argument for why Bar membership should never be optional
Calliente
Ea-nasir's descendant practices law
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I had to Google him (which I'm not ashamed in the slightest to admit, researching shit you don't know is a huge part of the field) and I already know I'm gonna be down this rabbit hole for hours
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Which is absolutely fine by me but will probably be a complaint of most of the people I talk to for the next two weeks
Calliente
I'm glad to be of service to you and I preemptively apologize to everyone you know
Nox
oh shit I actually do vaguely remember this now that I'm looking at it
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it came up in one of the 100 level courses I had to take. Less as a matter of law and more as an example of one of the earlier appearances of written records
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(after the Code of Hammurabi)
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I fondly remember that course if only because I still laugh at the professor
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He started the first class with the phrase "attendance is optional" and was then shocked (shocked!) that the vast majority of the class didnt show up except for days when it was announced there would be a test
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in an 8am, 100 level course
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(I still did because I'm a hopeless history nerd, but still, the fuck did he expect would happen?)
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(for anyone who doesn't get that significance- either due to prohibitive costs, because they're in a trade profession, or any other reason didn't go to college- 100 level courses are generally both of the lowest academic significance and the lowest difficulty to pass)
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(they're essentially introductory level at best)
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(I was usually hungover and/or sleep deprived for most of mine, which was a boon for the Ancient Philosophy course I took because you will never be able to convince me that the Ancient Greek philosophers weren't just fucking wasted 24/7 to begin with)
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(ARISTOTLE IN PARTICULAR)
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(my final exam for the course largely hinged on an essay on his worldview and I fucking aced the damn thing despite being absolutely shitfaced on rum and bourbon when I wrote the damn thing)
Doctor Ansem
Woof. Thanks for this report
Calliente
Diogenes will always be my favorite philosopher since he was a walking shitpost
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