zee art
opinion poll: in scifi, should alien species names be capitalized? if so, should you also capitalize "human"?
zee art
i have been torn about this for YEARS
vampiric hiss
NO THEY SHOULD NOT BE
ɪᴍ ʙᴀʙᴀꜱʜᴏᴏᴋ
NOPE
ɪᴍ ʙᴀʙᴀꜱʜᴏᴏᴋ
absolutely not
fermentingbones
the species, no
ɪᴍ ʙᴀʙᴀꜱʜᴏᴏᴋ
because we don't capitalize Human
6LilacMimeLions
if they're named after the planet, yes
6LilacMimeLions
human, Terran
sᴡᴀᴍᴘᴄᴀᴛ ғᴇᴠᴇʀ
I mean...don't they usually conflate species with race in scifi?
zee art
O: named after a planet what a take ... Earthing capitalized, but not human
𝒶𝓂𝑜𝓊𝓇 💘
yeah when alien "species" is actually being conflated with like alien race/ethnici--
𝒶𝓂𝑜𝓊𝓇 💘
yeah that exactly
🐅 its harry
i think you can make an argument for the norms of the interplanetary community going either way
spum
definitely not
fermentingbones
but if it's referring to the people as a Whole in a broader sense (a la Mankind or Humanity, which is often capitalized) then it is acceptable
🐅 its harry
like this is not a scenario that exists so you can do what you want
zee art
harry i went with that and it was STILL BOTHERING ME, i hated the mechanic i went with
sᴡᴀᴍᴘᴄᴀᴛ ғᴇᴠᴇʀ
Why not make alien species only in all caps then
zee art
killing me slowly
🐅 its harry
but its probably worth considering the implications of the capitalisation and what it says about the people doing the capitalisation
zee art
anyway thank you pals this is really super useful
fermentingbones
yeah, you can do a lot with that capitalization
🐅 its harry
like if alien species names are capitalised and 'human' isnt
🐅 its harry
what does that imply
fermentingbones
maybe i'm hot off reading Embassy Town aka space linguistics: the book but
fermentingbones
language is all basically a means of defining social order and it can be an awesome tool when deployed deliberately
zee art
god i need a reread on that
🐅 its harry
maybe it depends on which language is being spoken
fermentingbones
yeah, definitely. who's the one who gave them the name
fermentingbones
who classified the species
🐅 its harry
maybe some cultures consider it disrespectful for their species name to not be capitalised even if youre speaking a language where the norm is not to capitalise that kind of thing
ᴄʏɴɴᴀᴍᴏɴ
I played Spock for a while and the capitalization of Vulcan was a big issue for me
ᴄʏɴɴᴀᴍᴏɴ
because it shouldn't be capitalized if you don't capitalize human
ᴄʏɴɴᴀᴍᴏɴ
But Vulcan is always capitalized in trek stuff
euryale ☆
it depends
fermentingbones
doesn't star trek use Terran for humans?
𝖒𝖚𝖗𝖉𝖊𝖗 𝖔𝖋 𝖖𝖗𝖔𝖜𝖘
ooh i like that idea about the planets
fermentingbones
or is that only in
fermentingbones
tng stuff
fermentingbones
i have not watched tos admittedly
ᴄʏɴɴᴀᴍᴏɴ
It uses Terran
euryale ☆
like going objectively by our logic it should not be BUT if there are exceptions in the alien culture then go for it BUT
ᴄʏɴɴᴀᴍᴏɴ
And actually does capitalize Human, too
euryale ☆
that exception should be noted and explicit
euryale ☆
like who knows maybe a race is IN ALL CAPS
🐅 its harry
basically imo having your characters debate this issue is way more interesting than deciding on it firmly as a narrator
euryale ☆
and THAT'S HOW YOU DO IT
ᴄʏɴɴᴀᴍᴏɴ
at least, in some of the memory alpha pages it does
🐅 its harry
make the characters have strong feelings about grammatical correctness of it vs other factors
ᴄʏɴɴᴀᴍᴏɴ
That ^
fermentingbones
yeah, alien stories are basically stories about culture overlap ultimately so
fermentingbones
WHY NOT GET YOUR HANDS DIRTY if you're interested in the logistics of it
🐅 its harry
yeah!!
fermentingbones
and if you're not really interested, it doesn't really matter what you do
that omelas kid
if using a formal taxonomy such as Felis domesticus then capitalize appropriately, else refer to them as quarians or geth, etc.
🐅 its harry
you could use capitalisation or lack thereof to like ... highlight the difference between species and individual cultures within that species
🐅 its harry
or maybe a species capitalises its name bc the feeling is that theres a universal species culture
🐅 its harry
or maybe some of the same species have that attitude to it and some of them dont
🐅 its harry
maybe the norm is to capitalise species-as-culture but some cultural groups made up of multiple species feel theyre that group first and the species is a culturally neutral adjective
🐅 its harry
THERES A LOT U CAN DO WITH THIS
ʀᴀɴɴɪ
I think it's fair to capitalize a species name if it's also being used a their nationality, which is common in sci-fi.
ʀᴀɴɴɪ
i.e.: a human from Canada is a Canadian, but a human from Mars could be called a Martian.
zee art
i love all of these answers so much
╭╭(V)▽_▽(V)╮╮🍂
an alien language gets a Human-Readable Text-Addition and either the original language has Too Many sounds/tones/whatev or maybe the aliens working on it just don't realize that Capital Letters and small letters are meant to work as paired sets, and end up with something where a Capital =/= the not-capital and ya get shit like shiLLoOnyM
╭╭(V)▽_▽(V)╮╮🍂
and I mean in narration that'd be super weird and annoying, but the characters can have in-universe commentary on it
╭╭(V)▽_▽(V)╮╮🍂
"you misspelled that"
"I just didn't do the bullshit random caps thing"
"that's what MAKES IT MISSPELLED >:U"
Bing Bong
I think it's a matter of if you're being specific as in species or in general reference?
Bing Bong
like Earth the planet and earth the dirt
Bing Bong
idk, cats are cats and i think even binomial nomenclature is lowercase, just go lowercase
zee art
lmao omg that would be so cute ... characters being sticklers for weird grammar rules of cross-species translated linguistics
SPOILER ALERT
I love calling humans Terran
SPOILER ALERT
and I love the idea that any direct translation would have all species calling themselves 'human'
zee art
omg you're right that's good
zee art
what do you call humans from a colonized planet that isn't earth (thinking) obviously humans still works .. surely they would come up with names to differentiate, we always do
SPOILER ALERT
I've played that with Supergirl a lot. "What species are you?" "Human, obviously"
SPOILER ALERT
it makes more sense to me with words like "humane" and "humanity"
zee art
yeah for sure
casper 1995
I thiiiink in my alien comic I went with capital but I dunno if I actually thought about it, beyond some vague worry that if it wasn't capitalized people wouldn't remember the words were important
zee art
lmao legit
zee art
an important thing to consider in visual storytelling tbh
casper 1995
I also tried to do a comic that was all Aliens and no humans w/ as little expository monologues as possible ; as in, there's no intro explaining what the species are in a "once upon a time" kind of way so I was always worried people wouldn't be able to follow stuff
casper 1995
so you know in video games sometimes when they bold important concepts or names lmfao
zee art
lmao yeah i feel u
zee art
the rice boy guy does that REALLY well, i feel like surely you must have read his stuff and don't need to be told about it
zee art
wait i just realized i don't know if that's a guy
zee art
oh phew it is. my sexist assumptions paid off
casper 1995
haha i have a signed copy of Rice Boy & follow the creator on twitter but i haven't read the comics he did after
zee art
i'm actually only just now reading rice boy, but i've started right after binging 900 pages of vattu
zee art
ugh so good
casper 1995
also i was gonna say i was pretty sure he was a dude bc i remember being very annoyed at his twitter one day for telling ppl not to be excited about [superhero movie w female lead] being announced bc something something corporate capitalism means it's bad feminism
casper 1995
& i was like "i see your point but also you're not a women so shut the fuck up about what we can be excited about"
zee art
but also yes. that is so right up your alley so i am glad u were so on it
zee art
ah. yes.
zee art
not the worst of opinions to have in the grand scheme of things, but also pls don't
casper 1995
lmfao yeah like in the grand scheme of twitter, only getting annoyed at someone once for one thing is like, probably ok
zee art
a decent track record
casper 1995
BUT YEAH SORRY FOR THE TANGENT
zee art
it's ok, plurk was made for tangents
casper 1995
yeah rice boy does it rly well tho rice boy also feels very... fairy tale ish ?
casper 1995
not necessarily in a traditional way but in the surreal kinda logic sorta way
zee art
vattu so far is feeling way more grounded and solid as a story, and not a human-shaped thing in sight
zee art
i'm slowly picking up on what they're all called and stuff just by immersion
casper 1995
oooh yeah legit
casper 1995
i should read vattu
zee art
god please do, i'm so in love
zee art
and his art has really come a long way since rice boy
zee art
https://imgs.plurk.com/QuX/MbA/vwopVlxebzXvgHQJYPtUIpDz4pl_lg.png
zee art
random page
casper 1995
yeah i mean what i like about the idea of doing it thru immersion rather than like, a beginning monologue is that the reader can like, discover stuff as they go & you can play with their assumptions
casper 1995
oh man yeah
casper 1995
I LOVE VISUAL STORYTELLING.............
zee art
i feel u pal T_T
casper 1995
i love it but i struggle with it bc i have to like, purposely sit down and think "when was the last time i had a panel that didn't have dialogue" lmfao
zee art
it's so fuckin hard
zee art
there is SO MUCH TO KEEP TRACK OF
casper 1995
YEAH
zee art
rice boy people blow me away with how effortless they make it look
zee art
though of course you know that's hours and hours of honing his skill, SO MANY PAGES
casper 1995
oh man like there's another person rly good at it but it's at the tip of my tongue and i can't remember who i'm trying to think of X-(
casper 1995
it's a skill tho yeah
casper 1995
well rice boy is REALLY LONG just pagewise
zee art
my mind has gone completely blank the instant i tried to remember any other similarly simplistic but effective storytellers
casper 1995
but since so much of it is visual storytelling it doesn't feel as long but like, the book i have is a good inch or so thick
casper 1995
MAN I'M TRYING TO THINK BUT MY BRAIN IS LIKE "..."
zee art
an inch my god
casper 1995
i actually remembered it as double it's size and went and looked and was like "oh it's shorter than i remember"
zee art
ah, well half an inch is still a meaty book
casper 1995
oh no sorry i meant it's still an inch but i thought it was like two inches when i originally said it was really long lmfoa
casper 1995
I'M CONFUSING MYSELF
casper 1995
anyway i will talk about comics forever bc i was about to start talking about how like, i like when people have a good balance of visual storytelling and good writing, like emily carroll or a lot of mangaka
casper 1995
I JUST LIKE COMICS..........
casper 1995
i've made this plurk go so off topic
zee art
it's ok it was a joint effort
zee art
i am always down for comics talk
zee art
ohh i remember one of the ones i was thinking of! gingerhaze
zee art
fuckin nimona, man
casper 1995
oh man yeah !!
casper 1995
i should pick up nimona since she took it offline (which hey, no judgement re that)
casper 1995
it was real good
casper 1995
she's doing the new she-ra and i'm excited
zee art
oh my god is she!!! damn that's good to hear
zee art
i'm ready to care about she-ra
casper 1995
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