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[Detroít: Becom Hoooman] the biggest plothole in this entire narrative is the concept of people not empathizing or anthropomorphizing androids.
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we pack bond with the fucking roomba, for chrissakes.
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"They're not people!" like, david cage, did you spend any time around millennials?
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our fucking PHONES have personalities to us.
God Bird
The way I see it, I bet humans treated androids like their dogs. Which is to say, some pack-bonded and spoiled the shit out of their androids, and some abused them terribly or treated them like slobbery tools and nothing more.
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true. but in the greater world presented, i feel like we see more of the latter.
God Bird
I don’t think everyone would universally call their androids ‘it’, but rampant abuse also wouldn’t surprise me
God Bird
I really feel like there’d be more people like Carl treating their androids like people, but I think it’d be normal for those same people to be super weirded out when their androids demanded human rights
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the only one we see treating an android like an equal is carl. i feel like there's a missed opportunity to show more of that.
God Bird
After all, we laugh at PETA for declaring that animals should have copyright rights and shouldn’t be kept in our homes against their will. Maybe it’d be different if our dogs started talking, but still.
God Bird
I agree, though. I feel like the writing there was stilted and one sided without the nuance that comes with real world discrimination
coochie scarf
true. some of that comes from cage having all the narrative subtlety of a gold-plated brick to the face.
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i mean. i'm not sure the metaphors could have been less subtle if they'd had footnotes.
God Bird
Yeah. I really liked some of the characters and I felt like there was a lot to be said for the acting, but I wouldn’t call the writing subtle.
Pixel
Like this is my biggest problem?????
ʀᴀᴅɪᴀᴛɪᴏɴ ᴋɪɴɢ
we cry for the rovers we send into space for gods sake
Pixel
Like 60% of people like having androids more than other people for sexy time?
Pixel
Are you telling me you could pry those droids from said people and basement nerds (no)
God Bird
That bothered me too. What about all the robo spouses and robo kids?
God Bird
Did people just toss their fake family at the feds and then turn around and realize they have absolutely no companionship in their lives?
God Bird
I feel like on top of the massive unemployment rate, the writers didn’t quite comprehend the level of upheaval that would cause in society
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yeaaaah.
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i mean, jokes and criticism aside, i loved the characters
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and the metaquestion of what makes a person real is fascinating.
God Bird
I agree. It’s an interesting concept and I loved the characters (for the most part), but I feel like it could’ve been more interesting with a more nuanced world.
God Bird
It’s harder to fight for your rights when your oppressors do love you on some level, but don’t respect you
God Bird
If dogs rose up and asked for equal rights and standing under the law, maybe they’d have some totally on their side, but a lot of dog owners would tell their dogs that they can’t have those things because they’re not equipped for it
God Bird
Now come home and let me love you and feed you and don’t worry about all this running away nonsense
God Bird
You saw it with slavery, too. Slaves in America, Rome, etc. We have written accounts of slaves with ‘kind’ masters who treated them ostensibly like family, and there’s a lot of internal conflict there because they hate being slaves but they can’t bring themselves to hate the people keeping them as slaves
God Bird
That conflict and nuance is where the real meat of a story is, not just a simple “all humans are evil except Carl and Hank and all androids are good except maybe Connor”
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(and rose. minor character but she counts.)
God Bird
Rose too.
Pixel
I was showing my boyfriend all the endings and he really like how Connor could end up being android killer 800 or bffs with Hank
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i love connor & hank's rad bromance.
Pixel
He was also really into when Elijah asked Connor if he was gonna shoot the Android or not
Pixel
"This is a cool idea"
Pixel
"Thios game is a bunch of cool ideas with bad execution"
God Bird
Yeah, I agree. Lots of good material, not great execution
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yep.
God Bird
I feel like we should’ve seen more of Kamski
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still the best david cage game, arguably, tho.
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that's sort of a narrative scale of "wet tissue paper" to "soggy spaghetti" tho
God Bird
I feel like the actors had a much bigger effect on this game than usual, probably because they were motion captured
God Bird
And I heard that Connor and Hank especially improvised some stuff, which might have contributed to their chemistry
Pixel
yeap
Pixel
Please watch Connor's actor do his LP it's honestly why I'm enjoying the 'fandom' so much
God Bird
WAIT HE DOES AN LP
God Bird
LINK ME
Pixel
he's reuploading them here he also has a twitch
Pixel
He's doing a fanart Friday this week
Pixel
he's also calling out people when he loves their artwork
God Bird
Yes
God Bird
I am binging that while I pack tonight
Pixel
Twitch site
Pixel
one of the rare times I recommend twitch chat cause everyone is lovely at each other
Pixel
but if you ever wondered why Connor shot up in popularity it's partly due to him and his fiance
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i love it when that happens!
Pixel
(Who plays the Tracis)
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she's adorable.
God Bird
I personally liked Connor best because I thought his story was most interesting. Markus’ story should have been interesting, but he didn’t have a depth of relationship with anyone but Carl and he can seem like an inconsistent character, and Kara’s story only tangentially connects with everyone else’s
God Bird
(Plus, I’m still scowling at how the only two major female characters were a love interest and a mom, and that was basically their identity in the narrative.)
God Bird
(Although at least North can take up the torch if Markus dies.)
Pixel
Yeah. I also hated that only NOrth could be your lover
Pixel
A lot of people ended up hating her because she was very KILL ALL HUMANS
God Bird
North was clearly traumatized by how she was treated and she was kind of the Malcolm X to Josh’s MLK. I feel like her character had a lot of unrealized potential, because she felt like a cardboard love interest to me in the end.
God Bird
I feel like if you wanted to add a love story in, you need to pay better attention to chemistry and choice. A player shouldn’t accidentally fall into a romance they don’t want in a choice game.
God Bird
I personally would have romanced Simon if there was a choice, because he seemed to be the only one not yanking Markus forcefully into one direction or the other
God Bird
But I generally feel like the Jericho folks were barely developed
Pixel
yeah I think that's the problem. She wasn't super relatable that you felt like you could agree with her decisions
Pixel
it felt more like "Destroy it all" side of Markus' shoulder
Pixel
Maybe if we'd seen more of her
Pixel
I think part of the problem is they had 3 narratives which can work well but it just...B movie quality in this game
God Bird
Yeah, I think we needed a lot more from North to really be sympathetic, because she was balls-out about wanting to destroy everything, especially with that dirty bomb.
Pixel
yeah
God Bird
We know she was a companion android, but the Tracis come from the same club she did and they don’t demonstrate nearly the same amount of antipathy. They just want out.
Pixel
I mean it might have been really bad for North but like show her with like damage and have her talk to markus at one point
Pixel
OR even have her grow as the game goes on
God Bird
Yeah, anything to make her feel less one dimensional
Pixel
she was so against humans in all her choices have her learn to realize she might be too much into it but again this would require a much better script
Pixel
Like even the dirty bomb, you can emphasis more how she told the android guy no about blowing it up and tells Markus "maybe there's hope for the humans but I'm not sure yet" so you can see part of the reason why she told him no was because she's not sure if they are doing the right thing or not
Pixel
and gives it to Markus to make the call
God Bird
I can absolutely buy a person who’s been victimized by sex trafficking and wants to burn it all down, but I need more than just ‘oh I was a sex slave and that’s all I’ll say about that’ tacked on right before she does a hand make out with our protag
Pixel
God yeah that too....
God Bird
But development would also require that she actually react to things she witnesses, and she doesn’t seem to react beyond reinforcing the opinions we already know she has
God Bird
Maybe have her see an android killing a human child and question how far she’s gone
God Bird
Or maybe have her meet Carl and question whether all humans are really the same
Pixel
and it sucks because her character deserves empathy but the way she's presented you can't
Pixel
MAN
God Bird
Something to show growth, even if it’s negative growth
Pixel
Markus bringing North to Carl if he doesn't die would be amazing
Pixel
*to see Carl
Pixel
Carl telling North to take care of him and like little son things such as "sometimes he can be this and that"
God Bird
That would’ve been so great
God Bird
I would have loved to see that
God Bird
Just to have North do something other than be the devil on your shoulder at least
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yeah why make them so human to the point that they have LUNGS for fake breathing and are near indistinguishable from flesh people only for humans to have no sympathy
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In the protest there should have been a ton of humans on their side
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Connors most interesting cause his plot is both funny and charming thanks to improve and cause his narrative is closest in line with the games idea of becoming human
%Cu+ie^_^ki||er
you can choose your connor and the path he takes to get there or not. that's compelling! And should have been the whole game
God Bird
Yeah. I feel like Alice can get saccharine and Kara’s story suffers from its hyper-focus on an underdeveloped Alice, and Markus’ story suffers from how underdeveloped his own supporting cast is and how inconsistent his character can seem.
God Bird
I found it weird that Markus started talking about how ‘we are superior’ and ‘we should be the masters’ after he’d been perfectly happy being loved by Carl and caring for him for years on end. Sure, robo he’ll traumatized him, but the unabashed human hate you see in some cutscenes seems weird and more like a device than organic character development.
God Bird
*hell
Pixel
yeah same
Pixel
I think the one part I didn't like about Connor is that Markus is the one that turned him I kinda wish Hank had been there but
Pixel
I kinda want to write an AU which fixes a lot of mistakes (like ahving humans with the androids during the protest for example)
Pixel
something I feel would have helped Markus being more drasdtic is giving him Kara's chapter where she's at Zwego's house (however his name is spelt)
Pixel
so he could see the horrors of what happens when humans toy with them, especially of Carl, not knowing how this guy was, was the one who gave him the name to go if there was ever trouble or if he died
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zlatko.
Pixel
thank you
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no prob.
Pixel
His family was rich so I'm sure before ht squandered it he probably went to some art parties and made connections
Pixel
and he would 100% for sure want rare prototypes like Markus
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oh yeah. (shudder)
God Bird
I agree with you on Markus being the one to convert Connor. I felt like that was a weird scene because Markus was able to just look at people and wake them up earlier on. What happened to that?
God Bird
I think there would have been more emotional impact if Hank had been there and had challenged Connor to make a choice for once in his life to be a person, not a machine
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narrative happened.
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story-gameplay segregation.
Pixel
like a secondary way to unlock connor doing deviant would be when he's on the rooftop and Hank is in a friend relationship
God Bird
Someone showed me a comic of Connor deviating in the ‘Hank commits suicide’ possible scene to try to help Hank. I feel like both of those scenes had potential.
Pixel
yeah
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honestly Markus's motivation is so bad
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considering he comes from a privileged life and Carl treated him like a human? his turn around isn't earned
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Like there should have been some kind of hard betrayal from Carl to spark his distrust in humans
%Cu+ie^_^ki||er
can you link that comic
God Bird
Or even just Carl being taken from him in a more cruel and meaningless way
God Bird
Carl being killed by his son could plausibly spark that anger and distrust, but being shot because police run in and he looks like he just killed a dude doesn’t seem like a betrayal by humans, even if it’s unfair.
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Yeah
God Bird
Also I wish I could link it but Plurk mobile won’t let me
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I think him fighting with Carl's son, and Carl choosing his son over him and sending Markus to the dump could have been vood
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good
Pixel
That could have been one way yeah...I feel like it shouldn't come from Carl so Markus could at least have some depth to him. Partly why I think Zlatko would have been a perfect chapter for him instead of the graveyard - Markus could even wonder of Carl sent him there purposefully (he didn't know Zlatko was like this with androids)