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[Star Trek] Things We Almost Got / Secrets Of Star Trek
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resisting li
Exacerangutan
rakath idk who else
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ds9 the station was originally going to be able to move around like a ship which. lol. ok.
resisting li
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People who Were Almost Sisko:
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Peter Capaldi
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Anthony Head
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Richard Dean Anderson
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James Earl Jones
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(can you imagine)
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Alexander Siddig
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Almost Odo: Robert Patrick, who only didn't get the role because they were worried about terminator comparisons
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Iggy Pop was almost a main actor on ds9
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unknown as who
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Vic Fontaine was almost played by Frank Sinatra Jr
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Remember the episode of TNG with Bashir in it? That was originally Dax (which makes...900x more sense), but Terry FArrell wasn't available.
Hooded Figure
Peter Capaldi 
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Hooded Figure
: I know
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Vic Fontaine was supposed to get a human girlfriend
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I...don't even know.
Hooded Figure
..didn't they do that the other way around in VOY
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THEY SURE DID.
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though, I mean
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the EMH was more of a character than vic fontaine
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Kira was originally going to have been A Cardassian All Along
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The 30th Anniversary ep was originally going to be "Charlie X" and not "Trouble With Tribbles" related
resisting li
I didn't like Vic Fontaine, largely because I felt like he was a reallyyyyy weird gap between Moriarty in TNG and EMH in VOY.
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haha me either
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apparently the sentiment is everywhere because they tried to make a Vic Fontaine show and the world went
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"fuck you no."
resisting li
EMH develops into a character pretty slowly over repeated usage. Just a natural evolution. Moriarty was a special case, accidentally programmed to be self-aware by Geordi's requirements
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yes
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Vic just...spontaneously is a person somehow
resisting li
Vic Fontaine just............ IS a super self-aware hologram from his first appearance with absolutely no explanation and almost no one seems to notice it's even weird
resisting li
like you've got a throwaway "wait, shouldn't this not be possible" line or two but that's it
resisting li
So you have none of the explanation OR moral complexity of the other two options.
Exacerangutan
yeah it doesn't even make sense to me to put Vic in the same category
resisting li
Vic Fontaine is this self-aware hologram who just conveniently has no dissatisfaction with his super limited life and presents no ethical problems for anyone
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like, I guess bashir's friend just made a hologram and went "hey, you're a hologram" at it, and it was fine
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somehow
Exacerangutan
he's just a holodeck character who knows he's a holodeck character
resisting li
Yep
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On Enterprise, Phlox was going to have turned out to have not been a doctor at all, but a vet
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I have no idea how that would've worked or gone down
resisting li
So it's weird and it's boring and it doesn't go anywhere in part because of what a late addition to the show he was, but there isn't even a, like, aborted character arc.
Exacerangutan
...I mean there's no reason really a simulation can't simulate knowing it's a simulation
resisting li
Except that by the rules of the universe they don't, ever
resisting li
and the other ones who do are immensely upset by it because it's an immensely upsetting thing
Exacerangutan
.......I mean if his world treats veterinary medicine as seriously as fully sapient people medicine, why not
Exacerangutan
well
resisting li
Like there's a throughline from Moriarty to EMH that makes all kinds of dramatic narrative sense
resisting li
Vic Fontaine is just this weird deviation on that line
resisting li
that squiggles off to one side and doesn't accomplish anything and eventually returns to the original line
Exacerangutan
the question is, are they simulating someone who thinks they're real, learning that they aren't
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Exacerangutan
: well, there was a line about how he was expressly forbidden to treat humanoids
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Archer was originally going to have been raised by Vulcans.
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Which
Exacerangutan
or simulating someone who knows that aren't and is ok with it
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canonicly doesn't work, so I see why they trashed it
resisting li
None of them have ever been simulating a real person though
Exacerangutan
and I always figured he's just the latter
Exacerangutan
... oh, huh.
resisting li
like EMH didn't think he was a real person ever
resisting li
He didn't think he had real kids or anything
resisting li
and Moriarty, as soon as he knew he was a hologram, also knew he was a fictional character
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No, he knew he was a hologram. He wanted RIGHTS, but he didn't think he was a person
resisting li
They don't experience existential horror because of what they've lost
resisting li
Yeah
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like they're ALSO important evolutions from Data
ChickletLARP
:: bookmarks to read more later, cause this is fascinating. ::
resisting li
again there's a clear narrative throughline
Exacerangutan
......... //stares at his phone// ... it almost tricked me into sending a gif of a twerking bull
resisting li
also I'm so sorry I'm completely derailing your list of interesting stuff that got changed
Exacerangutan
smartphones are so weird...
resisting li
a twerking bull would never go amiss
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Which is why episodes where they find out what happened to all the EMH1s in the alpha quadrant or the EMH accidentally clones himself into the future are important for their like
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character growth
resisting li
/nodnod
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"Executives considered having a boy band featured in every episode of Enterprise."
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....
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I
resisting li
PPFFFFF
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did not think there was a way to make Enterprise MORE baffling
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They were originally going to 7 of 9 Archer
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ie: kill him off and replace him with someone quote-unquote sexier
Exacerangutan
._.
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William Shatner was originally supposed to reprise Evil Kirk in the mirror universe episodes
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but he was unavailable bc of a movie :/
Exacerangutan
that doesn't surprise me at all given how hard ENT tried to be The Sexy Star Trek
Exacerangutan
goddamn decon scenes
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Remember how the finale of enterprise was a glorified tng episode
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well
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originally
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it was going to be a glorified voyager episode
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(though to be fair, the voyager version sounds WAY more awesome)
resisting li
... huh
resisting li
A glorified Voyager episode also would make... more sense, I think?
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Which....is perhaps the first time I've said 'voyager' and 'awesome' in the same sentence
resisting li
Admittedly it's a bit hard to imagine anyone on DS9 sitting around watching Enterprise, which is the conceit of the TNG episode right? That it's all a simulation Riker is watching to make a decision or something?
resisting li
but to do it as a TNG episode feels kind of like disowning Voyager
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"The episode originally involved the EMH treating a patient inside a holographic re-creation of the NX-01. The patient, also played by Scott Bakula, is totally convinced that he is, in fact, Jonathan Archer, and he needed the Doctor's help to get back to his own century. It also would have left it unclear as to whether the patient was Archer or not."
resisting li
ooh
resisting li
sobs
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well, see, the TNG one has the problem that the enterprise episode takes place in the middle of a season 3 tng episode
resisting li
.... /opens mouth
resisting li
/closes mouth
resisting li
Riker's having a very bad day is all
resisting li
he hasn't slept for weeks I guess
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(sorry Johnathan Frakes I mean no disrespect)
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So like for no real apparent reason in that mission, troi and riker suddenly age 15+ years
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of course someone brought up the screencaps for the compre
of course someone brought up the screencaps for the compre
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*compare
resisting li
I'm by no means saying that this is in any way a good idea
resisting li
but they could have set it in the episode with the little alien boy
resisting li
who put Riker into a simulation where he was much older
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that would've made sense
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another pitched finale idea involved Nimoy reprising as Spock and having a chat with an older T'Pol
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which...honestly, would've made for a neat Passing The Torch moment, but whatever upn
resisting li
aww
resisting li
yeah
resisting li
I'm a sucker for TOS cameos tbh
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If we got a season 5 of Enterprise, we would've gotten these things:
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Jeffrey Comb's Shran as a main character
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Phlox making 'frankenstein monsters'
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a borg queen origin story
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a time traveling Elderly Archer
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(....someone watched quantum leap)
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and oh
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I almost forgot
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Russell T Davies and BRannon Braga were working on a David Tennant/Who crossover
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(god no)
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...or maybe it was 9? I don't remember
Exacerangutan
.......I don't really get how the NX-01 simulation helped Riker anyway...
Exacerangutan
the Voyager one makes a lot more sense
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Guinan would've appeared
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yeah, it really had nothing to do with The Pegasus ep
Exacerangutan
and I'm not exactly a Voyager fan either :x
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HERE HAVE SOME WHAT MIGHT'VE BEENS FOR TNG:
resisting li
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Wesley Crusher was originally a precocious teenage girl named Lesley and the product of an affair between Picard and Crusher
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Sela, tasha's daughter, was originally going to be her daughter with The ONe Dude Whose Name I forget (Richard?) who was raised by Romulans, and she was originally going to face-heel-turn against the romulans and join the enterprise
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Data was originally bio-mechanical (explaining how he could be infected by a virus in naked now)
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OKSO
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remember that ep where riker finds out he has an accidental transporter clone"?
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well
resisting li
ooh 
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ORIGINALLY
Exacerangutan
.......I like Lesley but IDK about the affair thing... 
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Riker was going to die
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and Data would be the new first officer
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with Transporter Clone taking Data's old job
Exacerangutan
D:
resisting li
oh man
Exacerangutan
dang
Exacerangutan
that's bold son
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Frakes apparently fought super hard for Riker to have a boyfriend, but alas
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SUPER BOLD
GW Wolf
That could have been awesome!
resisting li
Which Riker? Is this related to the other thing or independent? And is this separate from when he wanted the nonbinary actor to be male?
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Independent, and I don't know.
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Possibly?
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resisting li
The episode where they meet a race of agender beings which was kind of an awkward turtle attempt to comment on trans issues with that kind of "what if a matriarchy society where men are oppressed" lens
resisting li
Riker falls in love with one of them and they have a short doomed romance. Frakes fought to have the actor be male.
resisting li
Riker with a Y?
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I remember! I am not sure if it's the same fight, or a different one. I imagine probably the same.
resisting li
/nodnod
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Tom Paris was originally the same actor's TNG guest character Nicholas Locarno, who...is essentially the same character, background storywise but with more copyright baggage.
resisting li
/nodnod
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Year of Hell was originally going to be all of season four
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but upn went "hahaha. hahaha. no."
resisting li
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ds9's bad guys were originally going to be the borg
Exacerangutan
I've always wondered tbh
Exacerangutan
why not just
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and finally, because it's the last one I know but if others know things they should put them, Kira was originally Ensign Ro
Exacerangutan
make him Locarno
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There was a rights issue
Exacerangutan
........ huh.
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where they'd have to pay the writer who wrote that episode everytime they used him
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though for the longest time they just claimed that "Locarno was irredeemable"
Exacerangutan
...... yeah IDK how I feel about the Kira=Ro thing...
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you know
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despite Paris and Locarno being THE SAME CHARACTER
Exacerangutan
ohhhh
Exacerangutan
ha yeah
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but you know clearly one is more redeemable than the other
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somehow
Exacerangutan
I'm a little surprised they couldn't work something out tbh, but
resisting li
Yeah, they really LIKED the actress who played Ro
resisting li
she was three different characters in TNG that they all tried to keep around and which were all super popular with the fans
resisting li
Ro, and a female Vulcan who only showed up for one episode I think where Data got possessed by that guy
Exacerangutan
ahaha
resisting li
and also Worf's not-wife
resisting li
but the actress was really super not interested in being a regular cast member, I think?
resisting li
So they created Kira
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y, she didn't want to commit to scheduling
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they also offered her ro on Voyager
resisting li
In the DS9 pilot, you can kind of tell that she was written to be Ro
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(instead of Paris)
resisting li
I think the pilot was pretty much unchanged
resisting li
but later Kira branches out and becomes a noticeably different character
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and....honestly, you can tell with paris too that it was meant to be ro
resisting li
/nodnod
resisting li
I bet
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bc he has that nick locarno background, but then also the
resisting li
they're both a bit contentious but in very different ways
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"defected to the maquis" background
resisting li
(side note: I am now watching Chaos on the Bridge which is def still available on Netflix and really good so far)
resisting li
(What I particularly like is that Shatner, who is the director/host/interviewer of the documentary, isn't attempting to present a unified truth at all.)
resisting li
(He unapologetically plays clips of different people saying COMPLETELY contradictory things, and it works wonderfully.)
resisting li
(It feels way more honest than if he had chosen a side to believe.)
resisting li
Continuing on the popularity of that actress -- there's a whole novel about her Vulcan character. The one who was a minor character in ONE episode.
Exacerangutan
XD
resisting li
Yep