chibimoon
[cw: talk of sexual abuse] I just finished Utena animu and I’m so??? lost?????
chibimoon
I feel like I understand maybe 1 1/2 layers of meaning
chibimoon
mostly the incestual sexual abuse angle, and Utena trying to save her from it
chibimoon
the “knives of hate” being how society blames the victim
chibimoon
she probably was called a witch by others because her brother seemed like such a good boy, but that falls apart since he...might’ve not been like that back then? idk
chibimoon
but Anthy continually protects him and does as he says because that’s a fairly common defense for the abused
chibimoon
about to watch the movie; I remember really liking it
chibimoon
I haven’t watched it or the series since high school
chibimoon
I’m going to borrow the manga from my friend Stevi; I remember hearing a long time ago that the two are very different, which of course is unsurprising given how commonly that happens
chibimoon
.......I understand the movie even less
Toasty Mallow
the knives are simultaneously literal and figurative
Toasty Mallow
cause Utena also functions as a post-modern fairytale
Ms Properpants
Yeah, I'd suggest thinking of it in terms of not only abuse/survival, but also as a deconstruction of fairytales?
chibimoon
I was thinking to myself thru the whole final stretch
chibimoon
“how much of this do I take literally”
chibimoon
the whole story about how she became a witch and the prince dyin
chibimoon
I just don’t know anymore 
chibimoon
but post-modern/deconstruction is definitely an angle I didn’t think of!
chibimoon
I can’t stop thinking about how Akio turned into a sexual predator since being a prince and I just
chibimoon
ugh
chibimoon
I keep questioning his dynamic with Touga
chibimoon
THERES SO MUCH TO UNPACK?????
Ms Properpants
Re: Akio's relationship with all the students. I took this screencap during my own re-watch of the series. I call it "the most blatant lie uttered in the entire show".
chibimoon
HAHAHAHAHAHA oh my god
chibimoon
Andrea that’s amazing
chibimoon
yeah the 1/2 meaning I got was him being a sexual predator, which is...still related to the incest sexual abuse, in a way. but he talks about the chairman’s room being the highest point in the school and etc, and I’ve
chibimoon
been thinking that it’s a power thing to basically do whatever he wants to whomever, and get away with it
chibimoon
and I think “power to revolutionize the world” got thrown around with being chairman, which was what Touga wanted, so...did he aspire to that kind of power to go beyond just being a beautiful but douchebag playboy?
chibimoon
I JUST
chibimoon
THE WHOLE THING
chibimoon
SWIRLING AROUND IN MY HEAD
chibimoon
oh and I loved so much that Utena’s tear opened the final door, and it was like. so the drop opening the Rose Gate to the dueling ground every time was a foreshadowed tear??? DAMN, AWESOME
chibimoon
I love that Utena and Sailor Moon are these legendary shoujo series from the 90’s and they both symbolize POWER in girls’ tears/crying instead of a girl crying being a weakness
Ms Properpants
I vaguely recall Ikuhara mentioning in some interview somewhere that part of what Akio is supposed to represent is "the adult world". As in, the kind of adult world that will forcefully dictate your sexuality and your role in the world.
Ms Properpants
...I also remember it culminating in him telling a story about how one of the animators (I think?) had asked him why Akio rides around on the hood of his car, and Ikuhara was all "because he's an adult".
Ms Properpants
You might appreciate this?
Ms Properpants
But yes, that scene with her freeing Anthy ;A;
chibimoon
oooooooooh thanks andrea!
Ms Properpants
You're welcome! I haven't read all of that myself, but I recall seeing some interesting thoughts in there.
chibimoon
oh man i've already read thru ep 1's mini essay
chibimoon
i'm soooooooo sleepy but I CAN'T STOP READING
chibimoon
i think i'm on ep 9
Ms Properpants
Go sleep, you. It'll still be there in the morning.
Ashabel
I think watching more of Ikuhara's work helped me unpack Utena a bit, namely that Ikuhara often sets his works' themes as a battle between realism/pragmatism and idealism, and how neither is necessarily true.
Ashabel
IE Akio is very much a pragmatic power fantasy of obtaining all the power you want and then using that power to secure whatever you want, but Akio also feels persistently incomplete and hollow because he has no ideology or really any "higher" worth. He is power for power's sake, and it frustrates him.
Ashabel
Meanwhile Utena is an idealist power fantasy, but her character arc is very heavily about her pursuing an idealist lifestyle for pragmatic, selfish reasons. She's not selflessly a prince in shining armor, she is one because it makes her feel good about herself.
Ashabel
So yes, Akio is an adult, in that he's rich and he's powerful and he's successful and he also barely feels like a human being.
Ashabel
( I don't sympathize with him, but he's not really evil either. )
Ashabel
Yoji Enokidoh, one of the main writers on Utena, is generally somewhat obsessed with the Hero's Journey narrative and he's been doing and redoing it numerous times across multiple series, to the point where it's been fascinating to follow it across.
chibimoon
idk i think preying upon middle school girls is pretty evil
Ashabel
He's too damaged for me to easily parse him as evil or malicious. The best I can muster is disgust and pity.
Ashabel
I mean, if you think about it, Akio is like a parable about the ultimate worthlessness of male entitlement.
Ashabel
He was a power fantasy and he still is one, he's just butthurt that he's not as pure of a power fantasy as he was before.
Ashabel
He's basically bitter because he feels entitled to greatness, but all he has is power and social status that don't necessarily translate into that.
chibimoon
I can see that but