Every incident makes it harder for the Templars to work with the Inquisition ...
0n3574rkwr3n
Every incident makes it harder for the Templars to work with the Inquisition ...
Every incident makes it harder for the Templars to work with the Inquisition ...
0n3574rkwr3n
To the point that they're going end up being exiled.
0n3574rkwr3n
Or they are going to have to completely change.
0n3574rkwr3n
The problem being - and yes I am spitballing here - is that the only way they can do is no longer be Templars so the Mages will leave them the hell alone.
0n3574rkwr3n
So they would need to be cut off from the Chantry, but the Chantry is ... frankly the backbone and the supplier of lyrium.
0n3574rkwr3n
SO, could they in fact be the Inquisition of old where they did some hunting of monsters and not mages?
0n3574rkwr3n
But without lyrium and all go through lyrium withdrawl?
0n3574rkwr3n
Can they all afford to do that at the same time?
0n3574rkwr3n
They really can't.
0n3574rkwr3n
They need lyrium.
moira stan
the templars could always dissolve into the inquisition?
0n3574rkwr3n
Ugh, gilded cages suck.
moira stan
basically make the inquisition in charge of figuring shit out and taking responsibility
0n3574rkwr3n
And they all become basic soldiers?
0n3574rkwr3n
Sure they could do that.
STAR DAMAGE
yeah that's basically what nerva is doing
STAR DAMAGE
i assume she'll still be taking lyrium
moira stan
i wouldn't say basic soldiers
moira stan
they have unique powers and they'd be given the lyrium necessary
moira stan
it'd be more like if you chose to conscript the templars
0n3574rkwr3n
Yeah but no one in power trusts them anymore.
moira stan
i wouldn't say that, but i think that the issues of mistrust that are there stems more from people not trusting them with the authority that they currently possess
0n3574rkwr3n
But they don't have authority.
moira stan
or they have feel that the templars are overstepping the authority that they currently possess
0n3574rkwr3n
They don't have power. They answer to the Inquisition.
moira stan
i'm not saying it has to be done but it'd be an option to get the heat off of the templars without having to defect from the inquisition
0n3574rkwr3n
Seriously, Norrington is considering it.
0n3574rkwr3n
There you go, we're not templars, do whatever the fuck you want.
0n3574rkwr3n
He's gonna go drink himself into a stupor.
moira stan
at the very worst, it could be a temporary solution until shit gets sorted out
moira stan
just 'we have no chantry and no leader no one knows what's up let's wait until thedas has calmed it's shit down and reorganize the order from the ground up'
moira stan
kind of like what vivi does if she gets elected divine
0n3574rkwr3n
If it keeps the mages from hanging Alayre he'll do it.
0n3574rkwr3n
His pride will demand that the Inquisition take over completely and he quits because he failed his mission.
moira stan
it's not a failure, it's understanding that your organization has different significantly from it's original path and acknowledging that it's easier to tear down an old house and build a new one
moira stan
then keep trying to fix up the same old flawed house
moira stan
i feel like this is a conversation that beleth could offer norrington at some point in time
0n3574rkwr3n
Someone will have to convince him of that. As far as he's concerned he'll have failed the Order, failed the Chantry, and in some way failed his mentors.
0n3574rkwr3n
if he can't make this work - from what he's seen - then the Templar Order can't survive and everything he's done in his life is just pointless.
0n3574rkwr3n
A broken house that should just fall down and he's going to just ... quit.
0n3574rkwr3n
Have some very good men, Inquisition leaders. He's going to drink himself to death.
moira stan
beleth can try to talk to him and help
moira stan
after she recovers from dying
0n3574rkwr3n
See, and why would beleth do that? If anyone has a reason for wanting the Templars disbanded and sent away, it would be Beleth?
moira stan
because beleth acknowledges that the templars are necessary and useful but she doesn't think that the way that they're organized right now is the best
moira stan
besides cade going loco on her didnt have anything to do with the templar order
moira stan
that was just cade being cade (albeit more aggressive and bitey because of red lyrium, which isnt anyones fault) and beleth harassing him with the full intention of provoking him
moira stan
(she actually recruited the templars as the inquisitor, surprise)
0n3574rkwr3n
I mean, I just can't see it working anymore if there is little to no PC support for the templars.
0n3574rkwr3n
And my character isn't going to let them hang Alayre on a petard - that's just not happening. So he either starts a full on conflict with the mages which he doesn't want but they won't back
0n3574rkwr3n
the fuck off ...
0n3574rkwr3n
Or he talks to Alayre, they turn the templars over to the Inquisition and he leaves for the Alistair path of destruction.
moira stan
i think that there are other options that won't be quite as
moira stan
radical
Tidemother
if it's a discipline issue, turn it over to the two Seekers in game, which would be Cass and Malcolm?
moira stan
there's that, too
Tidemother
(and eventually Al if he gets in)
moira stan
but like i said, and beleth would be willing to offer this suggestion ICly if you want someone to talk norrington into it
STAR DAMAGE
Yeah
Tidemother
then it's off Norrington to deal with
0n3574rkwr3n
He still fails.
STAR DAMAGE
I dunno PC support has always been an issure re:templars
moira stan
there's always dissolving the templar order, either permanently or temporarily and becoming officially a part of the inquisition, like nerva.
STAR DAMAGE
but there are NPC templars, too
0n3574rkwr3n
This isn't going to change that.
moira stan
it would give the templars an official place in the order, an official amount of influence to exert, and as long as they follow the orders of the leaders, they won't be held responsible for shit going tits up
moira stan
because they're just a part of the inquisition now, and they're doing what they're told, so take it up with the leaders if there's an issue
moira stan
it removes the burden of responsibility and gives them a more rigid role in the inquisition
moira stan
as well as giving them a definite leader to report to, which has been an issue with the order
STAR DAMAGE
yeah and i think that's kind of what did it for nerva, like
STAR DAMAGE
she needs leadership
0n3574rkwr3n
I'm not saying that's not going to work for the Templar Order - it's a good plan.
0n3574rkwr3n
It will save the others.
STAR DAMAGE
she is not good at figuring out shit at an individual level
0n3574rkwr3n
He'll do it for that reason alone.
STAR DAMAGE
save them from what?
0n3574rkwr3n
From the continued attacks of outsiders to tear them apart. If they are no longer Templars and are part of the Inqusition then there is nothing to attack.
0n3574rkwr3n
He trusts the Inquisition leaders to take care of all their people.
0n3574rkwr3n
They can focus on the task at hand, FINALLY.
0n3574rkwr3n
But he still failed.
STAR DAMAGE
have there really been attacks against them? have i been missing a ton of shit again 8|
Tidemother
well if you don't want to go the dismantled route, I'd def say approach one of the Seekers to intervene
moira stan
thereve been people yelling a bit
moira stan
but yeah if you want to make this IC i'd say he can talk to beleth for the suggestion and then talk to the seekers to make it happen
moira stan
beleth will......try to keep norrington from getting too upset
STAR DAMAGE
if he talked to nerva about it she would just go "you should talk to cassandra she is amazing an perfect"
moira stan
and gorgeous
just spite
Don't be afraid of the cocoon, Norrington.
moira stan
maybe she'll just ask pel to go talk to him :/
moira stan
er, about the. feelings. and things.
moira stan
not the templar stuff.
just spite
Caterpillars don't fail.
0n3574rkwr3n
No the dismantled route would probably be the only way this can go forward in game.
0n3574rkwr3n
Especially with the balance of PCs for mages and against templars.
STAR DAMAGE
I don't think that's necessarily true
STAR DAMAGE
like there are plenty of NPC templars - i'm not sure they would want to dissolve
0n3574rkwr3n
Yeah but the NPC vote never matters.
0n3574rkwr3n
We're all focusing on the PC aspect.
moira stan
i would say take it up with the mods
moira stan
since doing that is kind of a big change that would probably need approval
𝒸𝑜𝒾𝓃𝓂𝒾𝓈𝓉𝓇𝑒𝓈𝓈
that's always been the issue re: templars.there's an overwhelming amount of player characters that don't support them so that's all anyone hears.
0n3574rkwr3n
River there's no cocoon for him. Being a Templar is all he ever aspired to in life.
0n3574rkwr3n
If he's not a templar he's not anyting.
0n3574rkwr3n
anything.
STAR DAMAGE
NPC vote definitely matters
STAR DAMAGE
especially for things like this
𝒸𝑜𝒾𝓃𝓂𝒾𝓈𝓉𝓇𝑒𝓈𝓈
i think we were in the right direction when it came to a 'council' of sorts. like the mages have.
STAR DAMAGE
yeah
STAR DAMAGE
nerva should just never be on a council for anything ever :'|
𝒸𝑜𝒾𝓃𝓂𝒾𝓈𝓉𝓇𝑒𝓈𝓈
and, for the record, they will always have lyrium. the Inquisition has secured a supply just for them.
0n3574rkwr3n
Yeah but every time there's a Templar meeting there's all this PC talk about how it's just another ploy for them to 'lord over the mages'.
STAR DAMAGE
well i mean
STAR DAMAGE
that's part of the entire basis of the civil war
0n3574rkwr3n
There's not enough balance in the other direction for the Templars to think they're even wanted.
𝒸𝑜𝒾𝓃𝓂𝒾𝓈𝓉𝓇𝑒𝓈𝓈
so it's PC talk. Mages have their opinions on templars. it's because there are an overwhelming amount of pc mages that don't like them.
STAR DAMAGE
that kind of stuff doesn't clear up fast
moira stan
yeah i would say
0n3574rkwr3n
Well no, but Templars are getting hemmed into a corner.
moira stan
don't take it personally
STAR DAMAGE
and at a point - do the templars really need to feel wanted...? like they are kind of used to living with hundreds of people who kind of resent them, right?
0n3574rkwr3n
Like literally, hemmed into a corner.
𝒸𝑜𝒾𝓃𝓂𝒾𝓈𝓉𝓇𝑒𝓈𝓈
what a lot of the mages don't realize is like it or not, if one of them fucks up that badly, it's not going to be a mage council issue. it's going to be an inquisition issue and the templars won't judge them
𝒸𝑜𝒾𝓃𝓂𝒾𝓈𝓉𝓇𝑒𝓈𝓈
the Inquisition will
moira stan
and there are some options available, and if you reached out to the mods they could probably think up some other options
0n3574rkwr3n
Because the mages can talk up and down about all the bad things templars do. Alayre loses his temper and has a crisis of faith and everyone jumps on him.
0n3574rkwr3n
Even the leaders of the Inquisitions.
STAR DAMAGE
well it's not like the mages are blameless
0n3574rkwr3n
.... Inquisitions? No Wren. There is one Inquisition not five.
STAR DAMAGE
there are two sides to the war
𝒸𝑜𝒾𝓃𝓂𝒾𝓈𝓉𝓇𝑒𝓈𝓈
The Templars feel like they're the bad guys, understandably. Cullen knows that feel.
moira stan
yeah
0n3574rkwr3n
The problem is that the Templars don't want to start a new conflict.
0n3574rkwr3n
Seriously all this backtracking that had Nerva going to pledge herself to Cassandra?
𝒸𝑜𝒾𝓃𝓂𝒾𝓈𝓉𝓇𝑒𝓈𝓈
players as a whole feel bad for mages because they see templar 'atrocities', but they don't realize that as a whole, Thedas doesn't like mages
moira stan
i think that your best option will be to just talk to the mods about the options and see what they say could be done, and decide from there
0n3574rkwr3n
Is the Templars trying desperately to make peace.
0n3574rkwr3n
You're right. I've talked myself around in circles again.
moira stan
but i think that sitting around and moping a lot ooc really isn't.......going to accomplish a lot. not just ICly, but for you
STAR DAMAGE
Okay i think something you need to understand about Nerva is that she historically has a Problem with authority
moira stan
the templar situation is difficult but it's just a phase of growing pains as people figure shit out and it'll get sorted out
STAR DAMAGE
she needs someone she really believes in, and yeah, she disagrees with alayre and norrington - not because of the shit that happened but because she needs conviction
STAR DAMAGE
and she saw them as capitulating to the mages
STAR DAMAGE
and what they had become didn't match up what she believes templars are
moira stan
letting yourself get dragged down by this will just end up with you feeling bad
STAR DAMAGE
there is literally no way to get positive cr with her, if you're trying to get positive cr with the mage council
moira stan
i mean in the end it's just a game
moira stan
of a game
STAR DAMAGE
yeah, the thing is, it's a game
STAR DAMAGE
neg cr can be really fun and somehow randomly turn into pos cr, if nerva is anything to go by...
moira stan
i do enjoy negative cr
moira stan
if you
moira stan
cant
moira stan
tell......
moira stan
laughs with salad
0n3574rkwr3n
Negative CR is fine.
Tidemother
if Norrington needs to vent/talk, Viv's available to him always. If it's ooc frustration that's eating at you, I'm here for support (snugs)
0n3574rkwr3n
Looking into a bleak abyss where you can't figure out why your character would stay?
0n3574rkwr3n
That's an entirely different problem.
moira stan
because they want to help save the world
Tidemother
I think someone was talking about this a couple of weeks ago how the PC makeup can sometimes skew the perception of how things are/should be canonly
0n3574rkwr3n
Yeah but their presence there is just ... tearing the Inquisition apart.
STAR DAMAGE
yeah there's always the whole corypheus thing
moira stan
like i said, i think the best thing for you to do is not let it ruffle your feathers OOCly
moira stan
it's just a part of the wild and crazy world of rp
0n3574rkwr3n
I'm upset? But I'm upset because I feel stymied.
Tidemother
mmm I don't feel like the templars are tearing things apart? from what I've seen there are just some very verbal anti-Circle mages making their grrrr known regularly and some PC templars who are abrasive
0n3574rkwr3n
I really love the idea of the Templars going - we're not templars anymore we're just part of the Inquisition because that seems like the sacrifice they would make to fight Corphy.
Tidemother
and it's good to have that kind of variety in the ranks, watching the clashes of perspectives, but you shouldn't feel like you have to resolve those clashes yourself
0n3574rkwr3n
To be like, see, we gave up all our perceived power can we please just go fight the darkspawn guy now?
moira stan
i think that it would be a good way to build trust again
moira stan
to show people that their priority is helping people, not just being an order with a lot of power to swing around
𝒸𝑜𝒾𝓃𝓂𝒾𝓈𝓉𝓇𝑒𝓈𝓈
it'd also be good to know if the order was disbanded or kept together when the inquisitor recruited the templars
moira stan
and then once a divine gets picked, it's her mess to clean up
STAR DAMAGE
it was kept together
STAR DAMAGE
as far as i recall
0n3574rkwr3n
Here is my problem. Here is where I am getting upset, because Norrington would do that, and then he would quit.
Tidemother
don't forget you have a Belinda with an app in too and I'm trying to bring you a Seeker, and I think there's another templar app in too, which should help bolster the numbers and even out the disparity
STAR DAMAGE
both were invited to join as allies
𝒸𝑜𝒾𝓃𝓂𝒾𝓈𝓉𝓇𝑒𝓈𝓈
thank you, i couldn't remember.
STAR DAMAGE
what in particular started this spiral?
STAR DAMAGE
because if it was nerva, ICly I don't know why that would have this effect - she was already a loose canon with the templars
0n3574rkwr3n
No, this has nothing to do with Nerva.
0n3574rkwr3n
It's a combination of what's going to happen post-Cade and Beleth fight, from my perception.
moira stan
well like i said
0n3574rkwr3n
What is going to happen post letter to the mage council and finding out that Alayre made sure one of the Rifters was not a demon.
moira stan
that situation doesn't have to do with cade being a templar
moira stan
it was two people with short fuses going at each other
0n3574rkwr3n
But it's still a templar wearing templar armor who shoved an unarmed woman into the ground and nearly cut her head off.
STAR DAMAGE
why was it a bad thing that alayre made sure they weren't demons?
0n3574rkwr3n
Because apparently Alayre was overstepping his authority.
STAR DAMAGE
and the cade thing can be solved by throwing him in the jail for a while to cool his heels
0n3574rkwr3n
Now Norrington has it on good authority that this was done with Lenn's permission.
STAR DAMAGE
sure the mages would think that but that's not necessarily TRU
STAR DAMAGE
TRUE
STAR DAMAGE
the mages think that the templars doing anything is overstepping
STAR DAMAGE
but no one knew wtf the rifters were
Tidemother
bear in mind, one letter to the council doesn't indicate full support from the whole group, hun
STAR DAMAGE
them being demons really really could have been true
0n3574rkwr3n
It's just a matter of - does Norrington get this into a fight with the council over this? Because he wants to.
0n3574rkwr3n
Or does he honor his promise to Cullen about making this go away.
STAR DAMAGE
well then get in a fight! why not? it's a pretty secure position
Tidemother
just one like one fly off the handle templar isn't indicative of the whole
Ataash
Yeah, so far it's just Korrin passing on what she was told.
Tidemother
if you feel like he'd approach Viv about this before picking a fight, I'm open to thread whatever, hun
Ataash
And I know she can be a pain in the ass, but I don't want to give you a headache personally.
0n3574rkwr3n
Honestly right now Norrington's got enough right now to go at the mage council with both .... blades blazing.
sᴛᴀʀsᴘᴀᴡɴ
i can only speak for araceli but anything that gets tossed around as ideas in plurk is just that but marcel and araceli are concerned with rifter reputation more than anything
0n3574rkwr3n
And he would. He would talk to his allies on the mage council first.
sᴛᴀʀsᴘᴀᴡɴ
hence why there was even a rifter meeting etc.
STAR DAMAGE
so have him do that
STAR DAMAGE
go talk to his allies, find out that not all of them agree, or who does
STAR DAMAGE
and make his case
sᴛᴀʀsᴘᴀᴡɴ
so if anything did come up it would go through the advisors as a letter etc because they were reacting to how they were considered demons first and now the rift incident probably has them on edge.
moira stan
yeah people are generally cool and they're usually willing to wiggle around to work out things with others
sᴛᴀʀsᴘᴀᴡɴ
araceli would just feel a responsibility to tell leliana because she's being trained
moira stan
shit will work itself out if you put your mind to it and dont let yourself get ruffled
0n3574rkwr3n
My problem is that 1. I am super hormonal right now so small problems are huge problems.
Tidemother
Ah! I prescribe a healthy dose of excellent chocolate for that.
0n3574rkwr3n
2. Because this is a huge problem in my head I am taking it to the worst conclusion first.
0n3574rkwr3n
My mind loves a good tailspin into destruction.
Tidemother
Well that's what we're here for. To help that not happen. And to force feed you chocolate.
0n3574rkwr3n
.... please don't force feed me chocolate. I don't want to be that kid in Matilda.
Tidemother
awww ok
0n3574rkwr3n
These are all great ideas though, and I really appreciate everyone helping me out of the nose dive.
0n3574rkwr3n
So he's going to be messaging Vivienne and ... hm. Adelaide definitely.
0n3574rkwr3n
Benny maybe.
0n3574rkwr3n
He's not really sure he trusts Benny - no way he totally doesn't trust Benny.
0n3574rkwr3n
And he might ask Nerva if she could talk to Cassandra for him?
𝒸𝑜𝒾𝓃𝓂𝒾𝓈𝓉𝓇𝑒𝓈𝓈
feel free to have him talk to cullen if you want
0n3574rkwr3n
Yeah he has to talk to Cullen because he's breaking his word if he does this.
𝒸𝑜𝒾𝓃𝓂𝒾𝓈𝓉𝓇𝑒𝓈𝓈
okay!
Ataash
And ftr, I'm fine with this coming back to Korrin and dealing with what happens. She needs the business end of a spray bottle every so often.
moira stan
moira stan
beleth is gonna spritz all yall
Ataash
Yes, that!
STAR DAMAGE
nerva and korrin will probably argue about it heatedly if it ever comes up between them because lol :') demons :')
Ataash
Yeeeep.
Ataash
She's DATING a demon, Nerva.
0n3574rkwr3n
sh_consulting Would Nerva talk to Cassandra on Norrington's behalf if she asked?
0n3574rkwr3n
he asked. Norrington is not a girl.
0n3574rkwr3n
That woman is not a demon, Korrin.
STAR DAMAGE
on his behalf to say what?
0n3574rkwr3n
.... she's mean as sin but she's no demon.
STAR DAMAGE
i mean yes probably but she would probably be like 'go and talk to her yourself she's amazing and perfect'